zordmaker

The land is already zoned 3C Business. It doesnt need rezoning. But it does need DA approval and thats where they will need to be careful with the pollies. Check ING's portfolio and the way they work. They like building big boxes and leasing them to high profile customers. I don't think they will be chopping up their investment and "selling the farm", thats not what they do. The main reason they bought the land is for capital improvement. They could just sit on it and do nothing.. and when the M7 opens in 2007 they can resell the whole swag for $100m. Kinda gives me satisfaction really. Sunway definitely sold at the wrong time. All business costs money. Building big boxes, roads and infrastructure for a business park costs millions. ING and PacLib will be prepared to spend at least that again ($50m) before their first tenant moves in. Why give WL another go? It depends on what happens over the next 12 months I guess. If the process gets bogged down politically, and the business case for a park in Sydney changes and the numbers add up then of course they will. Cheaper to throw $10m at Wonderland and have it making money than $50m at a business park for which you dont even have a single tenant signed up. Balls in their court. Documentary evidence is unclear on that. The two docs available (from which the press have drawn their stories) suggest the entire park (including all assets) have been sold to ING, but ING "entered into an agreement which allows for removal of the rides from the park". Basically this means Sunway will wind the park up but with the proceeds going to ING. This arrangement is not uncommon in business as it removes the risk element for the incumbent seller, i.e. Sunway have their money "up front" and ING will make a bit back from their $52.5m when the rides are sold. No doubt about it ING did get a good deal. Of course ING are within their right simply to reserve a number of assets on the site and withhold them from sale if they so wish.. forgoing the income they may have gained from the sale. By doing this, ING have effectively set things up so they can have their pickings of the site instead of being handed a working park with which they would have to deal with all the industrial relations crap of winding it up themselves. Industrial relations : all the Wonderland workers were in different awards, some state, some Federal. In some cases (in particular for the maintenance workers) there were completely unique awards brokered with unions and in force from as far back as the '80s. Alot of these were very inflexible and biased heavily in the workers' favour. By closing the park these awards have been nullified. If they reopen it again, it will be on a completely new IR slate. ZordMaker

That word "Profit" is a good one. The important thing to remember is that there are dozens of other parks around (Dreamworld included) who ARE making money, lots of it. If ING are convinced the problem with Wonderland was mismanagement and that there are possible business opportunities to be had then they'll jump at it and reopen the park (in some form) under a new name, new management and all cashed up. Its already been mentioned here that Maquarie practically owns Dreamworld so investment banks owning theme parks is nothing new. They dont care where the money comes from as long as the land is making a reasonable return for their investment. If in 12 months they think that the whole rezoning issue is becoming a pain and that Wonderland might deserve another go they'll do it I guarantee. They'll put a time limit on it and if it doesnt turn around in (say) 3 years then they'll close it again. But they wont wipe it out until they're sure they have a customer ready to take its place. Thats business. Thats how it works. ING allowed Sunway to close Wonderland because ING did not want Wonderland in it's current form, with all it's baggage, debt and industrial relations awards. If they do anything they'll want to start afresh. The "toxic waste" was drums of old aircraft instrument dial faces, with low level radioactive paint on them. They were relocated to Lucas Heights in 1996. Yes ADI is very different particularly because the land is still controlled by the Federal Govt. But there is still a large business interest involved - in this case Lend Lease. ZordMaker

My best is that Stephen is one of the most pissed off employees of all. What makes it worse is that he can't really ashow it until his job is done. It's never a good thing to be the bringer of bad tidings. It's my bet that he was also responsible for the "temporary" Wonderland FAQ that appeared on the night of 26/4 and then vanished 1 night later (a copy of which can be viewed at http://savewonderland.artelex.com) Some time this week Im goign to put up some .AVIs of the news reports from 26/4. ZordMaker

Thats the one thing that pissed me off so much. Nobody seemed to give a damn, but they're quite happy to fill our local rags arguing about some stupid kangaroos and leaches on the ADI site down the road. Wonderlan'ds closure is plain wrong and thats that. Its the stuff that Kids movies are made of.. the big bad Ziktor corporation wants to bulldoze their playground and build a big widget factory on it. If everybody remains quiet thats what will happen. And as usual 5 or 10 years later all of Sydney will kick it's own arse and yell "what the f#@$ were we doing?? Now what are we going to do on the weekend??" ZordMaker ZordMaker

Likewise I feel the same, thats why I initiated http://savewonderland.artelex.com However I dont agree (yet) with your suggestion to boycott ING. At present the new owner is our best chance of getting Wonderland (or at least bits of it) back open again. Sunway is your enemy. But I never heard anyone (including me) make noise back in 1997 when the interests were sold overseas inthe first place. I have considerable investments with ING. However I'm not going to start a boycott until I've got their attention first, and they have made it clear they don't want to negotiate. All of us who feel pissed off about Wonderland closing should be writing letters to the relevant pollies NOW. Believe me the system does work, but it's ever so slow. And Wonderland will be safe in the meantime. I hear they've got the army in.. :cool: ZordMaker

Thats nothing man. The entire Sydney Monorail still runs on a pair of slaved Amiga 2000's circa 1988. No Kidding. It works so well they have never updated it. But the staff guys who maintain it have for years and years trawled the globe for spare parts. They have half a warehouse filled with old junked amigas and parts! Dont believe me? Ive got photos!! ZordMaker

The thing I liked about Bush Beast is that its a relaxing ride that you can do again and again all day. Theres no full body restraint so you can just relax and enjoy. Just enough thrill, speed and rickety to make it worthwhile, but not anywhere near the "throw up factor" of the steelies like Demon. ZordMaker

http://savewonderland.artelex.com Updated Today! I sent my letters today, too ZordMaker

Thank god for the low Aussie dollar. Do you think that will teach us Aussies something about foreign ownership? I doubt it.. :eek: ZordMaker

It was a whole lot better than what we've got now, which is sweet bugger nothin'. :mad: ZordMaker

I just wish they had told Sydney earlier. If Sydney had known back that time last year, bets are on that they would have supported their park and the balance sheet would have gone black after 12 months. Just the support it received in its last weeks proves that. The whole thing sucks and thats why I want to do something about it. I dont care if it doesnt work at least Ill know an attempt was made. And you never know it just might work. ZordMaker

I somehow doubt it (the Gondola Ride, we're talking abouit her everybody). It's a very marketable "non thrill" ride that can be put to work just about anywhere. Somebody will buy it you can be sure. Could end up in Asia, or even at Sunway's park in Malaysia. Let's hope so

Interesting news but I think it's a bit old. The land I think you are referring to is where Linfox is now. The 120ha is the one they just approved in March I think. But yes it does seem that (indirectly) Sunway still do (or at least did) have holdings there. However these are not part of the deal with ING. ZordMaker

Are you sure? I find that hard to believe. Maybe $2.5m to move it.. but not to buy it. Im pretty sure it was sold for salvage rights only. They also added another pylon to the ride. All up the move, re erection plus the extra pylon would easily have exceeded $2.5m. It was removed from the Showground in late April 1997. I know because at the time I was working there for Kennedy Miller as head electrician and had to do alot of the disconnect work for them. I went on to use the same feeds to run the Babe backlot but thats another story. I wonder where it will end up next?.. Ironically there's a chance that it may find its way back into the hands of the Royal Agricultural Society.. at Homebush! ZordMaker

Fair enough, and Ill admit there's a less than 10% chance anything will come of it. But I just have a problem with things going quietly into the night, that's all. Too many people have put in too much effort and too many other people have had a good time there simply to accept fate and just forget about it. I guess we'll know at least that someone tried. I dont care if it works or not, this is more about creating demand for (any) theme park in Sydney, not saving Wonderland particularly. Compared to some of the doomed things I have turned around over the years Wonderland probably has the best chance of succeeding. Im more used to 1/100 odds. And yes, I have my failures too, like the three separate attempts in 10 years to save a working Telephone exchange all of which dismally failed. But then I prefer to remember the ones that worked - particularly the Red Rattlers where the odds must have been 10,000 to one that we could get any saved at all let alone restored and running. I'd rather take my chances with Wonderland than Lotto anyday. Its cheaper, and the rewards much greater. And if we ever do suceed in saving even bits of Wonderland I bags first ride on the Beast if it ever runs again either in its current or new location. Dont worry guys, you can have the front seats, I prefer to ride up the back ZordMaker

good points, will update over the weekend, also will finish the links page and maybe put some multimedia up (i.e. videos of the final day news reports and newspaper articles etc). Im not sure about you're claim that the Beach is that old. I live in the area and Im pretty sure it didnt go up until the late '90s. I will just remove the reference until someone can confirm exactly when it did open. I am not including the sale of surrounding land in the calculation of course. More study is perhaps needed on that issue, although it really isnt that important to the goal. Sunway are not retaining an interest in Wonderland beyond January next year according to ING's released statement. Someone in the press has obviously confused this with PacLib, who are the building company in bed with ING to redevelop the site - and will retain an interest after January. Wonderland was always a very small slice of Sunway pie (take a look at their web site) and their interest in theme parks represents only about 5% of their total holdings - probably 3% now. As for attractions, we've both forgotten the Gondola ride which was moved from Sydney Showgrounds in 1997/98. Although it could hardly be called an "improvement" since I can't ever remember it working. The site will be updated regularly. Dont forget those letters guys. Im doing mine this weekend. Zordmaker

http://savewonderland.artelex.com

A bit of burning the Midnight oil and we have a simple campaign website now.. http://savewonderland.artelex.com Let me know what everyone thinks. ZordMaker

Does it have a roller coaster? well?? WELL???? :-) ZordMaker

I have spent a few little bits of time here and there throwing something quick together over the past few days, I should have it up probably by the weekend. Perhaps we can use that as a guide and do something better afterwards including online petitions etc. JUst when I get it happening depends on how much time my 14 week old daughter needs each night. I guess there's a dream that when she finally grows to be taller than 122cm.. then she should be able to ride the Beast. It only stands to reason :-) More as it happens. I will email you direct also, soon ZordMaker

Actually it's neither Wonderland nor Industrialland.. it's AUSTRALAND... who are the quazi Govt body handling the sale of the land surrounding the site at the moment. What a cruel twist of letters when you consider the original name AUSTRAlias wonderLAND.. ZordMaker

Funny you should mention that as I have done quite a bit of research today and found out (the long way) the same thing, even to the stage where Ive got some letters ready to fire off to to the relevant ministers. It's actually wrapped up in a thing called SEPP 59. The Dept of Planning controls it, and the relevant local government basically is obliged to rubber stamp it - except that they do get a say first. As for timing it seems the Stages 2 and 3 of SEPP 59 have been approved but the part referring to Wonderland is not yet formulated. It will probably take the DOP about 12 months to get that far, after consulting both BCC and (no doubt) ING. Then it is gazetted, and BCC have 6 months to approve it or make changes before it is either approved by Council or by the Minister or both. Only then does it go ahead. So basically we're looking at about 18 to 24 months before anything happens to the land at Wonderland - which seems to match the suggestions placed on the Wonderland FAQ at their web site yesterday. So as you can see, yes we can have an effect on what happens to Wonderland, albeit small. The least that can happen is that the pressure is felt at Government level and if the effort to save all or part of Wonderland fails then there will be more pressure to establish an alternative theme park site near Sydney to replace it. And thats what this is about isnt it? I will be getting more active in the issue soon and will probably set up a web site to act as an information portal for saving Wonderland and / or establishing an alternative site, as well as following what happens to WL's assets. So get writing. Youve got nothing to lose and plenty to gain. And as for Wonderbus.. don't worry, you can still make a mint driving coaster fans to Dreamworld in the meantime. ZordMaker

Put it on paper guys.. these local pollies don't even have a computer, let alone know how to use it. Im going to do mine this week to each alderman personally. Put down that: 1.) You would like a portion of the Wonderland site to remain used as a recreational facility and not be zoned industrial. 2.) You want Blacktown Council to recommend to ING that the un-moveable assets (eg The Beach, Bush Beast, Snowy River at least) be retained and restored by ING in return for carving up and rezoning the rest of the park for industrial. 3.) Ramble on about how there is no other facility in Blacktown (or Sydney for that matter). Just a few ideas. If you're really feeling pissed off then hit the local and Sydney editorial papers as well. ZordMaker

My trip back to Wonderland on Saturday Night was a trade with my wife.. I had to promise that I wouldnt go back again that I wouldnt go back after that. And so I went out of town to do a Job on Sunday Morning and didnt get back until 7 tonight. At approximately 5:10pm I stopped the truck on the side of the road and waited with tears as I allowed 1 minutes silence to go by, realising that it would almost certainly be the time when the last train was riding over BB. Im still dissapointed and angry though, and would ask all of you to consider writing a letter to Blacktown Council even if you think its a total waste of time. Weirded things have happened before. If enough people speak, things do happen. Now onto other things.. I guess most of you noticed how the trim brake at the top of the 2nd drop on BB had been wound fully on over the past week, meaning that the train now completely stopped there before decending. It wasnt like that on Easter Monday. Waiting in line for all those BB rides gave me a good chance to look over the old thing and yes I agree.. it is rooted. But in my opinion thats when they're at their best, and I will always remember my many last rides over the past few weeks. Has anyone noticed how the whole building moves when a fully loaded train comes in and hits the final brake? The track in the station jumps forward about 6 inches. Saturday Night was indeed "insane", with probably more than 50% of BB riders joining the line again and again and again. There were some great cheer moments when the trains passed each other, and an almighty roar when they got the lift working again after it stalled, and an even greater roar when the "stranded" train finally made its way back. I hope that someone buys the fittings and maybe builds another Big Woodie somewhere in Australia. It will be such a shame to lose it. Unlike the Demon (etc), Woodies are such a relaxing and enjoyable ride, anyone can do it again and again and again. Keep in mind the Blacktown Council thing. Even if they only keep the Beach.. it would be something more than nothing. ZordMaker

LAst night was wild, Me & Sashi arrived about 6:30 and the place was absolutely packed. Had only one purpose : to ride Bush beast until the very end. We got in 5 rides between 6:30 and 10 when they did finally close. It was packed with the line down to the gate for most of the night. The lift failed at 7:50 with the Red train stuck on the rise and staff climbing up to calm down passengers. We were in the next train to go but they got us out to wait until they could clear the fault and send both around empty before reloading and starting again. The lift was sluggish all night and stalled at least 2 more times, all trains were packed, most with "sizeable" riders if you know what I mean, rather than the usual kiddie fare. It was a great way to finally say goodbye. Like others have said, with such a demonstration, who could still think of closing Wonderland?? ZordMaker