mx5_boy

I have no problem with anyone spamming Sunway. The more the better. I will personally avoid any Malaysian products or services wherever possible well into the future. And I intend on making my views known to both Sunway and the Malaysian government. For far too long us residents in Sydney have sat on our collective arses and done nothing as corporations have raped and pillaged things in the city in the name of corporate dollars. What Sunway has done and how they went about it is despicable. On an unrelated note Coles Myer are on my hit list now too after killing off the Grace Bros name. mb

A very sad day indeed, but not a great surprise. I agree with Richard it makes perfect business sense for Sunway to sell off the Wonderland property and make a packet out of it. It will be interesting to see how the local council takes all this in allowing the theme park land to be re-zoned 'industrial'. This had been a bit of a hurdle to Sunway before as the council did not want to lose the theme park or the jobs. The decision by Sunway to make this snap announcement must have both local and state governments fuming unless of course money has exchanged hands. We'll see what the news reports come out with in the meantime. So far over last 20 years we have lost the following: African Lion Safari Bullens Animal World Old Sydney Town Original Luna Park Waterworks Waterslide Park El Capalo Blanco Segaworld Original Manly Fun Pier Wonderland Sydney I cannot see another operator moving into Sydney and building a major new park without huge concessions on land tax and other freebies from the government. And with all the problems with our trains and hospitals I doubt and government of any persuasion would be prepared to stump up the dollars. And of course where is the land available? The state government has already tried to woo a theme park operator to Olympic Park. Perhaps now that Wonderland is closing someone might entertain the idea? We can only hope so. mb

Richard, Interesting reply mate. But having travelled around the boondocks USA recently there are still people out there that save and save for this big LA or Florida trip. And they still drive there replete with as many family members as they can pack into the Winnebago. I would have thought that the *once in a lifetime* thing would have been a thing of the past with cheap flights too, but many Americans (and it's becoming even more popular) want to do the big road trip thing. Particularly mid westerners! And even more increasingly the hispanic population. But to those who suggest Sydney needs a major water park? What a load of bollocks. Why would you build a major water park in a city that is surrounded by water and excellent calm and surf beaches? (And I grew up in QLD so I loathe Sydney beaches as being crowded.) And please no-one give me the *build and they will come* scenario. What happened to Sega World? An absolute prime position in one of Sydney's most touristy areas yet they had huge trouble getting people in. The Darling Harbour authority had an opportunity to step in and offer incentives for them to stay but even they were not going to support a lame duck like that. As I have said before if there is money to be had then things will be built. If there isn't then they won't. The NSW government surreptiously approached various different organisations to build a major theme park at Olympic Park to keep people coming into the area so it wouldn't become a white elephant. Do you think they achieved that? No, not even with a heap of freebies. What has happened to Fox Studios? The only time I bother to go there is for Mardi Gras parties. LOL Sydney would never be a destination of choice for a theme park experience whilst there are so many competing attractions. Each unique and far more *once in a lifetime* experience than seeing a replica theme park that international visitors could see at home. Which is probably why WLS has so many international visitors to it's animal park. When you think about it Taronga is a much finer destination if you want to see native wildlife. Oh so! Take care guys. MB

Guys, I'm glad some of you see the irony that we have here. Whilst we'd like monster coasters and fantastic rides built every year it's just not feasibly possible. Although, all our major theme parks have done tremendously in providing what they have. That's not to say they should sit on their heels and do bugger all. And I don't think they have, but in this day and age no-one throws money into the wind and we just have to accept that. However, when you look at the demographics of say Sydney and the local and connurbation population there does seem to be more than enough people to support an American style *big* theme park. That is if your an American style city. And I don't think anyone here would agree that Sydney is anything like an American city. Why do you think there isn't monster theme parks in the state of New York? Or not on the per capita basis that we might well think for. LA has big theme parks as it's a huge city plus it has an enormous amount of tourists that visit the place to see them. How many people would come to the GC from overseas to visit the theme parks? Or for that matter who on earth would visit Sydney to see WLS? Most o's tourists would visit Sydney to see the city. Ride a ferry. Visit Sydney Tower and maybe a few wildlife parks. Taronga etc etc. Unlike most American cities Sydney is blessed with 100's and 100's of things to do for tourists. WLS wouldn't rate very highly on that list. Which is probably why no major US or World Theme Park company has ever bothered to take advantage of our weak dollar and set up shop somewhere here. And another thing to remember a trip to a theme park for the majority of Australians is not necessarily a once in a lifetime trip. For far more Americans a trip to a theme park or Disneyland for example is often considered a *once in a lifetime* event. It might no look like that is the case with what we hear, but once you have travelled extensively in the USA (and meet different people) you certainly realise that we have it made here in Oz. You'd not be hard pressed to travel the short distances on the east coast of Australia to the GC and be able to buy a $90.00 return flight to the GC from Sydney or Melbourne, pay an entrance fee and return in the same day without spending more than $200 in total to visit one of them. I have American friends who pack up the wife and kids and spend upwards of $3000 USD dollars just to visit Disney and they drive themselves in Winnebago's or something worse for the trip of a lifetime. And what would we basically pay for a Disney trip? Not much and even far less for a GC trip. Yes the grass is always greener. **steps off soapbox** mb

Hhhmmm, I have been reading all these posts with interest. I know there are people who contribute to these boards that have had the opportunity to visit overseas theme parks and can make an informed opinion about such things. The interesting thing is that I note how diverse and intersting we all are. Some of us like themeing, some of us like shows and most of us absolutely adore thrill rides. We might drool at the thought of American style theme parks but we simply don't have the head of population to support them. The margins made at our own are not really that big. And you know what? Our parks are a darn site better than most North American ones. They are cleaner, have less awful people and our queues are by far shorter. I remember back in 1990 when I was just 20 and visited the *very new* then Universal Florida. We had queues of 3 hours just for the King Kong ride and 2 hours for the Earthquake ride. And it was hot. But I will add that it was also a class act. A recent visit to Universal in LA painted an even worse picture. Universal Walk was just plain nasty with over-themeing to the max and expensive food. The worst thing I found was the dual queues.. One for English speakers and one for Spanish speakers. And please don't get me started on the terrible awful people that inhabit SFMM. It's not a nice place to visit at the best of times. Crowds of nasty trashy teenagers who make the trip there seem so threatening. And we won't go on about the humongous people that seemed to be nasty regulars at Cedar Point. Ditto to Alton Towers in the UK. I grew up with DW and SW. And as I was a little older WLS. I have taken many an overseas friend to DW/SW/WLS and they have always been impressed by the cleanliness and quality that we have. But again always found it quite strange that there was never a huge amount of people to deal with and the very short ride lines. For a small country like Australia the big theme parks on the GC are quite an achievement. Ditto to WLS who manage to have world class rides for a little city of 4 million people. They might not be the latest and greatest but they are still world class. If a theme park in Sydney can build a world first ride, followed by DW on the GC and MW then we are very lucky that such money is spent. Instead of bitching about what we don't have.. How about we be thankful for what we do have? I love Cyclone (former big dipper), the Bush Beast, Giant Drop, Lethal Weapon, Wipeout, Space Probe, The Demon, the former Thunderbolt, The Corkscrew and of course the Bounty's Revenge. ToT doesn't interest me as there is no real thrill value there for me. But each to our own. I think the point I am trying to make is that for a little place in the middle of nowhere we are not doing to bad in the theme park stakes. And of course the quality people that work at our parks. I cannot ever forget the dreadful people that I have encountered at American theme parks. The have a nice day bull**** is exactly that.. You can say it but do you mean it? Take care guys and gals, mb

:shock: I expect WS to lauch a very silent and virulent court action against certain individuals that advised them that the exhibit was within NSW law. NSWDW advised them first then they had the misfortune of attracting the attention of the Ag department who happen to oversee TPZ in certain forms. I see government intervention in the most ridiculous form to let a govt run enterprise (Taronga) have a bit of a upper hand in the xmas holidays stakes. *sighs* As far as I can tell all the relevant animal handling documents were lodged with relevant councils and the relevant (that they thought) authorities for the handling of these animals. So please don't kick WS management. They thought they were doing the right thing. mb

Touche Daniel! The Titanic comment was done in jest. lol As for my comments about your spelling corrections, well I will stand by them. It is a tad boring and a little offensive to those who perhaps through no fault of their own (our education system) have a little trouble in that department. When I post messages on here or any other forum that I may belong too I try my best to make sure my diction and grammar are spot on. But not having the luxury of time or patience I quite often have to get my word out without re-reading it or at least checking it. Just give the kids a bit of a go mate. Cheers! mb

:shock: Daniel, Give it a rest with the spelling corrections mate. It's borish, anal and thoroughly moronic. Everyone else, I have already spoken to some of my brokers in Malaysia and asked them to contact Sunway and ask them what plans they had for WS. This was some months ago and the people at Sunway were very tight lipped. They said *medium* spending on the park and that was it. Other people I have spoken to have suggested that WS are simple sitting and waiting to see how the Marvel thing goes with people and if there is enough interest expect to see HB/LWL turned into a Marvel themed area at very little cost. Why do you think they haven't bulldozed it quite yet? WS don't need to put in a new *monster* ride to get the hype to create something new. If you think about it what would have more appeal? A new giga coaster or twister? Or a new land for half the price which would attract families (yes families rather than single teenagers) in their droves? Perhaps we might see a re-do of the Titanic ride from fox studios? (heh heh, just something I heard.) mb

:evil: To the cretins that get on these boards and criticise people for wanting to know information on park operation including the dissapearence of the lion cubs. You guys are the ones who seem to have no life, if all you can do is get on here and tease other board members for their curiosity or love of theme parks. What is this site about? *Wonderland Sydney* I for one would like to know why WS removed the cubs after spending quite a bit on advertising them. I also find it hard to believe that WS would have made a monumental cock up of the exhibit, considering how popular the wildlife park is and how well run too. The only possible cockup scenario that I can see is if perhaps staff failed to take into account zoning issues for the park. As in maybe the theme park area is zoned differently to the wildlife park area and somone in management assumed they wouldn't have a problem having the lions in the theme park area. Pure speculation though, which is a part of this site! Cheers, mb

:mrgreen: I am going to put my vote in for Wonderland! But what? LWL hasn't been completely bulldozed yet so look for any action around there after the xmas season and WLS have had enough time evaluate how popular the Marvel experience was. mb

8) I have to agree as well. The parks here are exceptionally well maintained and kept clean. Some of the parks I have been to in the USA have been in a very sorry state, even with new excellent attractions some of them fail in keeping the place clean or shiny. And the queue's! We have never seen the type of queue's you get in American theme parks. KH

I love most aspects of the park but greatly miss the Beastie and what used to be Hanna Barberra Land. I think that’s something that is sorely missed by a lot of people as most of us grew up with having it there. I remember hot summer days when extended family would all meet at *Australia’s Wonderland* and spend the entire day wandering the park. With Botany Bay first, then Goldrush for the Bush Beast – of course by this stage it was usually sweltering as Western Sydney gets in summer so everyone would do the 30 – 45 minute queue for the Snowy River. We’d probably then be all laughing at who got wet and who didn’t. Then of course bickering over where to eat lunch! (There was at one time, picnic grounds for people to bring their own food to the park.) Right after lunch it would be up to Hanna Barberra Land to ride the beastie, have ice creams, watch a kiddies show and have our pictures taken with some HB Characters. Mid afternoon would usually involve myself and my older cousins / sister leaving the adults and kiddies to go fit in as many more rides on The Bounties Revenge, The Bush Beast, Snowy River and some of the other flat rides. Rright up until closing time then we’d meet our family back at the park entrance, always late, usually soaked from the Snowy River, wishing we could stay longer and dreading getting into the hot car for the long drive home to my grandparents place! Growing up in SE Queensland, of course we had Dreamworld and Seaworld. But Australia’s Wonderland always seemed extra special and exotic. And so big! It really was a place for the whole family to spend an entire day. Rather than a big new ride at WS, I would like to see them re-create HBL with some modernisation (Marvel Comics??) so that a new generation of kids can experience it. I’m sure it would probably boost attendance figures somewhat. (OK – so I DO want to see a new big ride as well…) mb

Heya guys! Has everyone seen the new Dreamworld ads appearing on telly? We have been seeing them in Sydney for around a week now and I must say that they are pretty cool. However, call me a purist, in the middle of the ad when they show family member getting off the log flume you see the ghastly non painted grab handles in full slpendor. This irritates me to no end. Surely the marketing company could have glossed over that obvious nastiness? Sure it's only a lack of a little paint but it strikes me as a lack of maintenance issue. Watch the advert and see for yourself. mb

I wouldn't be surprised by the complete closure of WS in a few years either with probably the Wildlife park remaining or just the LW area turned into an estate. Seems we have quite a rumour network happening here with WS. Just about all of it is bull**it. At the present WS management are concentrating on maintaining the park to some reasonable standard whilst flogging off the surrounding land for the industrial park. For all intent WS management lobby for money to build new rides but the keepers in Malaysia are spend thrifts that have not had a good run on other investments in the past 5 years. I have heard nothing about BB being taken down, all I will say that my contacts at WS are corporate as the company I work for invests in the Malaysian parent company through our emerging markets unit trusts. Speculation is rife about how WS is going to unleash it's Marvel contract and management have to put together a decent proposal to Head Office with supporting *interest documents* supporting a totally Marvel themed area somewhere in the park. But the interest has to be justified to the amount of dollars invested. So it's like this, if Sunway can realise the the profits from the theme park as being an appropriate investment and associated investment in new infrastructure then we'll see some excellent investment in WS in the next 24 months. If they work out that running the park down and selling the land as an industrial estate makes them more money then they will do that. However, after looking into the rezoning issues of WS complete land it appears for all intent and purposes that the original developed footprint of the park is still designated as the theme park land. What will happen? Who knows, WS management will have to be very convincing in an effort to actually change the zoning of the theme park land into industrial as the NSW government and Blacktown council will have something to say about a major attraction to the area being changed into an industrial wasteland. Watch for construction or destruction in the LW area. mb

Hey guys! Just thought I would post this question as my mother is a roller coaster junky, just like her son. Even still now that she is in her 50's!! I can remember my mum taking me on my very first roller coaster at the Sydney Royal Easter Show - *The Wild Mouse* when I was under 10 years old. I was terrified and cried! The next time was after we had moved to SE Queensland and as a special xmas treat we were taken to Luna Park in Sydney. The orginal *Big Dipper*. I remember I cried and was terrorfied again! My father watched my sister whilst my mother made us ride. LOL From then on though, came my love of coasters and rides! As young kids in the 80's we were lucky enough to be taken to the west coast of the USA and went to all the big theme parks. I think my mother had more fun than my sister and I. I can remember when Dreamworld first opened and being there when the only major ride was the Log Flume! I even remember my father having to take my sister *through* the *chicken gate* that they had on that ride. I won't list all the coasters and other rides that my mother and I have enjoyed together but think of all the openings between the early 80's till now at all the following parks and you get the picture: Dreamworld Seaworld Movieworld Wonderland Sydney Segaworld *new* Luna Park Sydney There is nothing new in Australia that she hasn't been on. The last major big thing for her was Lethal Weapon (remembering that LPS's coaster went to Dreamworld and she'd been on that). I have pointed her in the direction of Cedar Point and now she wants a family holiday there.. heh heh! What about your own families? mb

8) Well, I love both rides. Space Probe was a world first and set a precedent for Aussie theme parks in trying new technologies and ideas. But bang for your buck would have to be the GD. I don't think they themed it terribly well, considering the monster size of the the thing and it's *big ride* classification. But I still have yet to ride on anything else across the planet that scares me so silly as GD. Mainly because I am terrified of heights! Personally I like rides to be themed, so long as it is done well and creates an additional experience. The absolute huge media build up to the opening of Space Probe 7 (as it was formerly known) in partership with channel Seven was unprecedented in it's hype! Every teenager in the greater Sydney conurbation was just wetting themselves at what it was all about. We knew very little, only that it was going to be big, world's biggest (blahdiblah) and something that we all had to experience! I can remember the very first time on Space Probe 7 and *just like on TV* thought the theming of the ride was awesome. There was a total experience package here, that I had only seen at the big American theme parks before. My mate and I checked out the people coming off from SP to see if they were truly terrified or acting as if it was lame. To our horror and excitement most people were speechless zombies! The 90 minute queue was a pain but when we got to the tunnel entrance (after watching *Anne Sanders* (I think) and the whole evacuation spiel countless times) and were made to run through to the next section - gave a huge amount of expectation. The ride ops in SP7 suits making it a major experience was even better and kept the riders in a total state of *what's next*. You also have to remember that you couldn't see the ride happening for about 15 minutes before you got on and heard virtually nothing inside the tunnels. By the time you went through to the loading gate all you could think of was *sh!t*! You were rushed through to the seats and strapped in pronto and off you went! Gosh! It seemed so high back then and no sooner were you horrified at the height, you were in the dome with the silly countdown that always seemed to start at 9, 8, 7, 6, *boom* down you went - trying to scream but unable! No *cruise* time like a coaster - just harness up and out you had to go. Both my mate and I were speechless and had to sit down and ended up giggling uncontrollably! It sticks in my mind as one of my favourite park experiences anywhere in the world! I still have my WS ticket from that day. I can remember all the openings of the GC theme parks rides and making the effort of either getting my parents to take me or travelling up when I was older for the newer ones. But nothing sticks in my mind more than the opening of SP and the associated hype! mb

Wonderland would have to have an official licence from the relevant gaming authority. Under law an official from that office would have to had gone over Wonderland's legal documents which they would have had done by a private company that specialises in those things. As for the competition itself? Very smart move by WS and should generate some huge cash flows for them in the duration of the competition. Think about it. What happens to people when they play a game whereby they have a chance to win substantial dollars? *Gambling* These people will probably dump even more money into the parks games and such. Besides the fact of attracting more punters to park, you should also take into account the added revenue from the other games, the food concessions and such. Not to mention the new *Marvel* lines they have. Cheers, Michael

I didn't think Zodiac was a foundation ride at Wonderland: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/historyofkin...ge/127?source=1 Cheers, Michael

Heya guys, Here is an interesting link: http://timelines.home.insightbb.com/pki_years.htm When did Wonderland stop following the Paramount / King Island parks lead? Did Wonderland actually have licence over the KI names used on their rides? If you look on the timeline above is says the Zodiac was SBNO for 1988. How could Wonderland have it? Although I didn't think the Zodiac was at Wonderland till the late eighties. Can someone confirm whether it actually was in the park originally? Cheers, Michael

Aqua Golf? Would someone like to explain what / how about Aqua Golf. Sound incredibly boring. Cheers, Michael

Richard, Interesting statistics indeed! I could understand Sunway not investing in WS for a few years there due to the economic problems in Asia. Those times have passed and WS must have been making them money through these times otherwise they would have offloaded it like their other underperforming assets. I never did understand the logic of closing down LWL and one wonders whether a new *Marvel* themed area will be put in it’s place or it will be bulldozed and turned into business park land. Not having a themed childrens area must be affecting revenue or attendance. Even if they only opened it up on weekends / school holidays, it would boost patronage no doubt. The infrastructure is there! Back to the e-mail I got back from my Malaysian broker, I went back asked her how she construed the information given back to her in the context of *nominal investment*. Her analyst got back to me suggesting that investment in new attractions, extensive refurbishment programs would be nominal investments. He also made mention of the tie up with Marvel which should see some sort of themed area in the park with a new attraction to make the most of the tie up, which is generally what theme parks do when they have this sort of branding agreement. That’s about all the information I can get! Cheers guys, Michael

:| HHHmmm finally got back some information from my broker in Malaysia re: Sunways Ifrastructure investment at Wonderland. Apparently it is proposed to spend *nominal* amounts on infrastructure investment within the park not *substantial*. The rest of the information was about the business park. What would construe *nominal amounts*? A new ride or two? Or just things like shows etc? Cheers, Michael

Richard, I was actually referring to the type of wheel assembly mount, the bits that attach the wheel assembly to the car. Kind of like the rubber mounts that most engines attach too on a modern car to minimise vibration. Another alternate example would be the compound that Ciityrail used here in Sydney on the City Circle line and on the Harbour Bridge. It's a similar scenario they did whereby the track mounts are laid in concrete with a rubber sort of 'o' ring that stops vibration and noise of metal with metal contact. Now, in your mind, reverse the application process to have the rubber compound used as a contact meet between the coasters wheel assembly and carriage. It would be so much easier to explain if I could draw a diagram! I do know that the rubber mounted track mounts worked a treat for Cityrail - to the point where you used to hear trains trundling along CQ and the Bridge from a long distance - now it's virtually silent. They are strong enough to not allow any lateral or horizontal movement of the rail track but still take extreme forces and manage to buffer the vibrations of all of Sydneys rolling stock - from Tangara trains to the more generic S & R sets. Actually the smoothest ride on any Cityrail train is from the tunnel exit at CQ to the Station proper, with virtually no movement and a near perferct 5 cm gap between a Tangara's doors and the station floor. OK, my point being that surely a compound similar to that used by Cityrail, reversed designed for wheel mount contact would be suitable for reduction in coasters vibration? In theory it would at least minimise the vibration and have a dampen effect on lateral movement to a point whereby it wouldn't be so jarring. You could also *y* mount your contacts with the wheel assembly with cross bars in a *X* config that would provide additional stability and vibration reduction - much like a car - but without the need of shock absorbers and still providing the rigidity needed. How easy is it to be an armchair engineer? LOL Michael

:oops: Ooops! That will teach me to write questions whilst talking to brokers on the phone at work. Sorry guys for any confusion. Michael

Interesting Richard! Not sure whether you thought I was comparing the Demon to the Big Dipper / Cyclone but I was actually referring to the difference between the Big Drop / Space Probe cabin width and associated tracking. Do the Vekoma trains use rubber mounted contact points on the trains? Or more specifically, what type? I'm just curious and can't seem to find any technical information anywhere. Cheers, Michael