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Non-Vaccinated Banned From Theme Parks


Brad2912
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There's a lot of people wanting to demand the parks give them refunds over this, which the parks probably will for good will, but no reason they should.

A lot of them are the same idiots saying "I am not vaxed and I will boycott any business that only allowed the Vaccinated to enter"... so super clever logic at work there

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There are crazies on any side of any argument or opinion. 
I think the radicals on the extreme end of either side are dangerous, but that’s just my opinion. 
 

if DW decides it will refund or “hold” pass expiry over until everyone is welcome, and VTP decides on a “too bad the T&Cs say….” then that’s their decision. It doesn’t mean I black list VTP for life. Everyone makes the best decision they feel for their own situation.  I’d probably would have some impact on my brand loyalty but i don’t feel I am illogical and unable to separate business from personal decisions.

I’ve already seen posts about protests at the theme park gates blocking entry on the 18th of Dec. That shit is nuts… 

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Agree, yeah someone might be worried about a vaccine.....

But then then many of the same people were up in arms about warning masks too and developed bad faith arguments about oxygen deficiency etc even though if you went to somewhere like Japan pre covid people have bee wearing masks with a cough for decades:

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So it seems ANY measure will make some people unhappy and resentful.

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6 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

because some people are morons unfortunately.

You said it.

 

3 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

There are crazies on any side of any argument or opinion. 
I think the radicals on the extreme end of either side are dangerous, but that’s just my opinion. 

I think this is a bit disengenuous as an argument. What does a pro-vax 'crazy' or 'radical' at the 'extreme end' do - take every vax? :s

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22 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

You said it.

 

I think this is a bit disengenuous as an argument. What does a pro-vax 'crazy' or 'radical' at the 'extreme end' do - take every vax? :s

A pro-vax radical refuses to have any association with un-vaxxed people, including their own family and friends, because they feel by their mere presence they’ll somehow be struck down and killed by a disease they are supposedly already vaccinated against. 

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27 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

A pro-vax radical refuses to have any association with un-vaxxed people, including their own family and friends, because they feel by their mere presence they’ll somehow be struck down and killed by a disease they are supposedly already vaccinated against. 

I like you, we're on different sides of this issue, but that seems like a strawman argument 

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On 18/11/2021 at 8:41 PM, Brad2912 said:

A pro-vax radical refuses to have any association with un-vaxxed people, including their own family and friends, because they feel by their mere presence they’ll somehow be struck down and killed by a disease they are supposedly already vaccinated against. 

I'm personally more worried about catching it and spreading it to older relatives who haven't gotten vaxed for health reasons. Don't lump it all together.

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1 hour ago, Proshall Mutta said:

I'm personally more worried about catching it and spreading it to older relatives who haven't gotten vaxed for health reasons. Don't lump it all together.

And if that’s your situation and choice that’s sweet. Do what suits you. You’re in no more risk mingling with unvaxxed at a theme park though than you are at Woolies, on a train, at the hairdresser or at your doctors surgery. 

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1 hour ago, Brad2912 said:

And if that’s your situation and choice that’s sweet. Do what suits you. You’re in no more risk mingling with unvaxxed at a theme park though than you are at Woolies, on a train, at the hairdresser or at your doctors surgery. 

Especially when they ban all of them! Gonna feel a lot more comfortable then. :)

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15 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

You’re in no more risk mingling with unvaxxed at a theme park though than you are at Woolies, on a train, at the hairdresser or at your doctors surgery. 

Risk management sometimes involves accepting certain levels of necessary risks, while eliminating unnecessary risks.

This is why unvaxxed will be able to go to the doctor or the supermarket. Unlike the definition we've given the word 'Essential' over the past two years, those ones actually are.

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Clothing doesn't spoil in a week though. Many retailers had online shopping options available, and the shopfronts that were open were either dead, being used to despatch online orders, or people were browsing and window shopping instead of buying 'only essentials', which is why they made that change.

We defined 'essential' way too broadly early on, because the impacts of shutting down everything seemed too horrendous at the beginning.

Also, I doubt you'd get naked protests in melbourne - you'd be hard pressed scheduling it into the 20 minute window when the weather is warm enough to get your kit off.

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I personally don't believe any scientists would purposely produce anything which causes harm. I'm not one of the nutters who thinks the vax is designed to kill people and a method of population control - that stuff is the thing of fruit cakes. There are plenty of doctors/scientists/immunologists and the like who do disagree with what is happening and how things have been handled - but they are shunned, gagged and ignored by MSM.

What i do believe is that mRNA vaccines are likely the future of healthcare, however they are also a long way from being proven effective and safe in the long term - and thats purely because they are a new concept and technology. We dont have long term studies of mRNA vax's because they simply have not existed long term - and if it wasn't for this pandemic, we wouldnt yet see them in mass usage, they'd still be undergoing trials for a large number of years. 

Protein based vaccines, like childhood vaxs, are well researched and studied with decades upon decades of data available. Had a protein based vaccine been offered/used early in the piece, i personally would have been far more likely to have taken it - however the Australian govt got into bed with large pharma like Pfizer and the rest is history, meanwhile we have manufacturers and vaccine producers in Australia exporting protein-based covid vaxs to other countries because their own will not consider it. 

Then you have effective treatments, and even potential cures, that the government will not acknowledge or fund, because they've got into long term deals for hundreds of millions of dollars at the wrong time with the wrong people and are now stuck with it. 

As i have said all along - everyone doesn't have to agree. If you have chosen to take the covid vax, then i support your decision whole-heartedly. I may not agree with it because it's not what my personal decision is, but i would 100% fight for your right to make that decision without anyone trying to coerce or manipulate you into making it.

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10 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

What i do believe is that mRNA vaccines are likely the future of healthcare, however they are also a long way from being proven effective and safe in the long term - and thats purely because they are a new concept and technology. We dont have long term studies of mRNA vax's because they simply have not existed long term - and if it wasn't for this pandemic, we wouldnt yet see them in mass usage, they'd still be undergoing trials for a large number of years. 

What do you consider a long time?

The concept of mRNA was first published in 1989. The first human trials were conducted targeting cancer patients in 2001. The results of those trials published in 2008.

BioNTech (behind the Pfizer jab) was founded in 2008 off the back of those trials. Moderna in 2010. mRNA based (viral) vaccines for the Rabies virus began clinical trials in 2013, and development for several other viruses including the flu, and zika virus.

Sure, the covid vaccines have been accelerated, but for mine, I think a worldwide pandemic is a pretty good reason to work faster.

20 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

There are plenty of doctors/scientists/immunologists and the like who do disagree with what is happening and how things have been handled - but they are shunned, gagged and ignored by MSM.

 

21 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

Then you have effective treatments, and even potential cures, that the government will not acknowledge or fund, because they've got into long term deals for hundreds of millions of dollars at the wrong time with the wrong people and are now stuck with it. 

If you're talking about horse dewormer, anti-malarial treatments and drinking bleach, I think theres a reason why some doctors are shunned and gagged. 

Next you'll be telling me mRNA vaccines cause Autism too.

23 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

Protein based vaccines, like childhood vaxs, are well researched and studied with decades upon decades of data available.

How do you think they got decades of data in the first place?

The flu vaccine offered this winter was based on a viral strain that was seen last year. The flu vaccine isn't a decades old tried and true jab - because every year it changes, and every year they have to change the vaccine, and test it, to determine if it works on the latest strain.

25 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

As i have said all along - everyone doesn't have to agree. If you have chosen to take the covid vax, then i support your decision whole-heartedly. I may not agree with it because it's not what my personal decision is, but i would 100% fight for your right to make that decision without anyone trying to coerce or manipulate you into making it.

This is an interesting point. 

You've put forth many reasoned arguments for your position. You've challenged others on theirs. Why then, is it such an issue for someone with a different opinion to yours to challenge your position?

You've made several broad statements like 'other effective treatments not being acknowledged by government' but you're not supporting these statements with evidence (or even simply stating what they are so that others can research or debunk). 

If what you are saying is true enough that you believe it (and I don't believe you to be an idiot - you've been here a long time and shown you are intelligent) - why is it such a hardship for you to support what you are saying with empirical evidence  -  would that not help convince others to be more cautious, if caution is in fact what is needed?

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Not ragging on you mate, but just clearing up a couple things from above because there is a little bit that is wrong.

  • The Australian Government's bet was actually on the AstraZeneca viral vector (protein based) vaccine first which uses a weakened virus containing the coronavirus spike protein. They didn't anticipate the potential blood clotting problem which is why it took so long to secure Pfizer/Moderna shipments. Talking to my friends in medicine there was just a ton of these vaccines going wasted because nobody was getting them.
  • mRNA vaccines have been studied since 1970s. We got really lucky because scientists were already developing the vaccine for other coronaviruses at the time which allowed for the rapid development of the technology. They have been proven to be effective and safe in the long term with how they interact with the body. It's fundamentally impossible for them to have latent long term side effects as the mRNA messengers are disposed of quickly by the body through the liver - generally two weeks. It exploits a natural process of how our cells create proteins. The mRNA informs the muscle cell at the injection site to create the COVID spikes. It does this for a while until the adaptive immune system catches wind of the problem and then takes the cell to the lymph nodes to tear it apart. Once it does this it studies the components of the cell and discovers the COVID spikes where it creates a response attack for future use when exposed again. The vaccine uses primarily natural, body made resources which eventually die in the body are disposed of through liver and kidneys. The body does this constantly when creating proteins so it's not like it's doing something dangerous. History tells us that severe side effects are extremely rare but if something does happen it's usually within two months of the vaccine. It's been out for a lot longer than that and is in billions of people with minimal problems. Latent long-term problems over years just don't happen but was sparked as a fear from the 'vaccines cause autism' movement which was debunked after the scientist behind the movement was trying to scare the public on the MMR vaccine, patent their own vaccine and make millions off of it. 
  • Be careful with 'professional' sceptics because they often have an alternate agenda. 'Ps Get Degrees' is an expression used within university that you can just constantly pass and still get the same degree as everybody else which applies to scientists, doctors, etc. The real test of a doctors/scientists ability is their interaction with the professional world and if they're trying to garner skepticism and push their agenda without working in the field then I think it's a good show of how other scientists regard them. There is often a reason why they're not actively in the field. 
  • Regarding potential treatments and cures - Funding and supporting these takes time, just like the vaccines. I'm sure they're not sweeping them under the rug to fulfill their agenda, but they need to be researched and tested with the same scrutiny. There is a nice list here - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-drugs-treatments.html
  • Also they are not preventative, they are treatments, which means that you have to get infected and be sick for these treatments to be useful. If treatment is necessary then the person will likely need to be hospitalized which puts pressure on our hospitals, nurses and doctors. It is better to prevent this in the first place with vaccines than to have thousands of people in hospitals receiving treatment. If our healthcare system is overwhelmed then that means that other preventable illnesses may not get the treatment they need. Prevention is FAR more effective than treatment. 
  • None of this is me trying to coerce or manipulate anybody, just clearing up facts. I completely and wholeheartedly sympathize with those who are scared, but I know people who try to come up with facts to support their fear which is not how facts work. Just being uneasy about the vaccine is fine, but coming to conclusion based off these emotions is dangerous for others. 
Edited by Dom
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3 minutes ago, New display name said:

I love google battles.😂

I'm not googling these. As I said earlier I was terrified of the vaccine and listened to as many podcast, research talks, videos, etc. from reputable sources that I could find to help me understand it. I even dabbled in some alternative views to see what the other side was saying but a vast, vast majority was just fundamentally wrong.  I can safely say I'm not fearful of it anymore. 

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36 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

You've put forth many reasoned arguments for your position. You've challenged others on theirs. Why then, is it such an issue for someone with a different opinion to yours to challenge your position?

This I find the most interesting point of your whole reply. 

i don’t feel I have challenged anyone’s decision to getting vaccinated. I’ve never told anyone they shouldn’t, or tried to convince anyone not to. I have challenged the way the government is handling mandates and rules, 100%, but not an individuals right to choose whatever they want. I have challenged people’s support of those same mandates. But I have never challenged someone’s decision to be vaccinated - as that’s not my place to do. 
 

I believe people have the right to challenge my strong held resentment to the government mandates, but I don’t believe they have the right to challenge my right to choose not to take the covid vax. 
 

36 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Next you'll be telling me mRNA vaccines cause Autism too.

Super strange comment. I would never say such a thing at all. 

36 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

would that not help convince others to be more cautious

It’s not my job to convince or coerce anyone. At this late stage in the game, if people haven’t made educated decisions in their own best interests nothing I present now is going to change that. It appears that 90% of people on here are onboard with the vax, and that’s all good. 
 

I actually really appreciated/enjoyed @Dom’s post - it explained his situation and circumstances perfectly. I didn’t read it thinking about how I could nitpick points and try to refute them. I didn’t try and dismiss or contradict anything he said. There are plenty of platforms for that type of thing, and I don’t want this to become pages and pages of YouTube and Google links that invariably favour the side of the person posting them. I just posted my thoughts and feelings. 
 

 

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