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DaptoFunlandGuy
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Joz: Village: The year ending June 2003 their profits before tax dropped 16.7% from the previous year to $11.5million, with Sea World and Wet n Wild's attendances down. Movie World's was up slightly by 5%. Source: http://www.villageroadshow.com.au/pdf/2003...lageARpart1.pdf The year ending June 2004, the profit before tax was also $11.5million, with attendance levels across all 3 parks rising 10% to 3.4 million. Earnings before rent, interest, tax and depreciation (EBRITDA) was $20.8million Source: http://www.villageroadshow.com.au/press_re...al%20260804.pdf Village Roadshow has been struggling to make profits, hence the sharp reduction in the share price over recent years, and no dividends for shareholders due to lack of profits. Earnings before rent, interest, tax and depreciation (EBRITDA) was $24million Dreamworld/Macquarie Leisure: For the year ending June 2003, Dreamworld's attendance was up 3.2%, with a total of 1 093 300. Earnings before rent, interest, tax and depreciation (EBRITDA) was $17.2million This one is on the Macquarie Leisure website. For the year ending June 2004, Dreamworld's attendance was up a further 12.9% to 1 234 611. Resulting in their highest revenue amount ever. I couldn't find their EBRITDA to compare, but I presume it is up considering the increase in attendance levels. http://www.macquarie.com.au/au/property/ac...tation_2004.pdf Furthermore, MLE has experienced a huge amount of strength in their share price, as well as offering increased dividends to shareholders, reflecting their strong profit levels. ---------------------------- After reading the annual report of Village Roadshow, it actually doesn't sound very promising. They even admit that the low growth and lack of profit is because they are failing to introduce new attractions. Village seems to me that it holds a firmer grip on the international market, however Dreamworld is attracting more locals. I would like to see Village match it with Dreamworld, and produce new attractions regularly. If in fact their staff are 'more enthusiastic' and you don't have to wait around for big lines, then perhaps more rides at these parks would be better options. I think it is impressive that Dreamworld have competed with this larger entity, seeing Village has the 3 park superpass and also 3 completely different experiences on offer, yet Dreamworld still performs so well. Richard: wasn't attacking people because of their opinions, mainly asking the question, "what would you like them to do?" There is a lot of complaining, but not many ideas to improve the situation. That is where I agree with you; if someone has a better idea, write it down and send it to the respective parks. I know I will be writing one to Village, again. I was a shareholder in the company for a long time because I thought that if well managed, they could monopolise the Theme Park industry in Australia, yet they've made no inroads on that whatsoever. So yes, I have an interest in both companies and as many people on here, I expect nothing but THE best from all of the parks.

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And Mandajk are you trying to tell me that you went on 6 rides all day? 4 if you take away the train and the bb house? I wouldn't blame the lack of rides on long queues, I would blame it on walking around and wasting time too much. I could go in tomorrow and within the first hour go on at least 4 rides, and I dare say it would be the popular ones. Maybe you didn't seem to get your moneys worth because the person you went with doesn't like going on rides. If you don't enjoy going on rides, and don't go on rides, then DW is not the place to go.
I'd like to know how you can say I walked around and wasted time considering you weren't there with me. The only walking around I did was from ride - ride and if you consider sitting down for about half an hour for lunch was wasting time then consider me guilty. Oh, before I forget, I think I visited the bathroom twice the whole day too. That would have added about another 10 minutes to my "idle time" the whole day. As for not going on rides because my BF doesn't like going on them - last time I checked I had a mind of my own and didn't follow him around like a puppy. I actually managed to go on two rides with Alex and his GF while my BF held our bags etc. I also managed to go on rides by myself (wow!) at the other parks. I didn't get my money's worth because of the sheer number of people queuing up at each ride. I could have added the Cyclone to the list of rides I went on (without my BF incidentally) but I just couldn't be bothered queuing for over an hour. So you could add about 15 more minutes of "wasted time" while I was in the queue there if you want to be specific. And I never said that I don't enjoy going on rides - I said that I didn't feel like going on the claw, the big drop and TOT. I quite enjoy rides actually - would I have spent $58 just to walk around all day? I think not. I'd also like to see you actually go to DW and try to ride on four rides in the first hour. Good luck.
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I'd like to know how you can say I walked around and wasted time considering you weren't there with me. The only walking around I did was from ride - ride and if you consider sitting down for about half an hour for lunch was wasting time then consider me guilty. Oh, before I forget, I think I visited the bathroom twice the whole day too. That would have added about another 10 minutes to my "idle time" the whole day.   As for not going on rides because my BF doesn't like going on them - last time I checked I had a mind of my own and didn't follow him around like a puppy. I actually managed to go on two rides with Alex and his GF while my BF held our bags etc. I also managed to go on rides by myself (wow!) at the other parks. I didn't get my money's worth because of the sheer number of people queuing up at each ride. I could have added the Cyclone to the list of rides I went on (without my BF incidentally) but I just couldn't be bothered queuing for over an hour. So you could add about 15 more minutes of "wasted time" while I was in the queue there if you want to be specific.   And I never said that I don't enjoy going on rides - I said that I didn't feel like going on the claw, the big drop and TOT. I quite enjoy rides actually - would I have spent $58 just to walk around all day? I think not.   I'd also like to see you actually go to DW and try to ride on four rides in the first hour. Good luck.
When are you free? I'll ride 4 rides in the first hour, you pick the day. Peak or off peak. Dreamworld is open from 9.30-5pm on these holidays. Now by the sounds of things (what alex said), he went to Tower of Terror and Giant Drop in the last hour, so from 9.30-4pm, what did you do? 6 1/2 hours for what, 2 rides? No, I wasn't there walking around with you, but it doesn't add up to me. Even at Christmas time you wouldn't only get 4 rides in the whole day, especially seeing you said you didn't go on the claw, giant drop and tower of terror. The only rides left that you may have had to line up for a considerable amount of time is Wipeout, Cyclone and Rapids, perhaps Reptar and Log Ride could be included but there is no way it would have been an hour. The rest of them rarely get lines longer than 15 minutes.
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It annoys me when people constantly complain about the queue length at dreamworld without addressing the issues the other parks have. The longest amount of time i have had to wait to go on a ride was at Movie World and it was for the wild west falls. After waiting 2 hours in the line to go on this ride we went up the first hill and where it is meant to turn you around for the backwards drop the ride broke down. For some reason the staff decided to leave us on the ride for half an hour for them to fix it, only for them to finally come and get us off it. The most annoying thing about this is that as soon as we got off the ride started going again. The staff were not helpful at all and when we got back around to the entrance we asked if we could go to the front of queue, because we didnt get the full ride. it took 10 minutes of arguing to final get them to do the right thing. Now I will admit dreamworlds rides do have long queues but at least the staff are friendly and willing to help unlike MW. The longest time i have waited to go on a ride at dreamworld was 50 minutes and that was for the TOT and that was 2 weeks after it opened. the only way the waiting time for rides can decrease is if they put more rides in and that isnt going to happen.

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Whinge whinge whinge. All you do is whinge. If a Six Flags theme park opened here (which I doubt) and it had tonnes of brilliantly designed rides in it, all you'd do is whinge. It is your right to whinge, but by god, be thankful that you got some nice theme parks up there in Queensland. All I got down here in Sydney is Luna Park. And all them peoples in N.Z. have is, well, I dunno, I dont take much notice of what they have over there.

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I We want to have real discussions. In saying that, I agree that theme park managements rarely (if ever) read these forums so it would be a good idea to send in feedback to the parks in addition to posting here.
I hate to contradict you but the management of all the theme parks in Australia read this forum on a regular basis (more than once a week). How do I know this you ask? Well I used to work at Wonderland and there was a certain Operations Manager there named Zoe, who used to work at Seaworld, as did numerous other high level managers including the CEO Stephen Galbraith. They all read this forum and they all had ties and contacts at the other parks on the Gold Coast. I can give you an example to prove what I am saying, there was certain information posted here about Wonderland by a staff member, the information that was posted was only known about by a small group of staff, when the information came out, Zoe took disciplinary action against the staff member who leaked it. I am not going to make any comments on Dreamworlds capacity as I haven't been there in a long time and therefore cannot comment with any authority. But I will say this, what about safety factors? You can only run rides at a certain speed with limited personnel and still keep operation safe. I am defiantly not saying that more personnel is the answer because in Australia it's not, the reason is that most rides here are setup to operate with minimum staff and don't work well with more. "The Bus is now leaving for Naughty Chief Lodge, South Australia"
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well i have read this all twice, and still can't remember half of what was said or asked... ill try to remember as much as I can. Richard... yes i went to Queensland with the expectation of having DW number 1. with the looming opening of the claw during my stay, i structured my whole trip around it, and would have gone on the 18th had it not been my mother's wedding. that said i dont think my opinion of dreamworld is skewed because of that expectation. I do not believe that a bandaid fix can be achieved where capacity is involved. i think it is a number of factors, which as stated separately in different posts, consists of a combination of - More staffing, and EFFICIENT staffing better queue design - cyclone is a perfect example because the distance between the front of the queue and the station gates are so far away. ToT to a lesser extent is the same, and this includes the elevators which were taken out of service because the problem was seen early in its operation. another solution is mentioned above - Warner village manage to draw a large amount of their crowds at SW and WBMW to shows during the day. effectively dividing their park attendance into about 2 or three pieces. at sea world, the suggested itineraries on the map are followed by a lot of people. this means that the morning - half the people on the rides, the other half at the shows, and then vice versa. movie world has three police academy shows, 2 looney tunes shows, about 10 or more movie magic shows and 2 street shows.... how much of the park attendance go to these? this reduces stress on queue lines.... my point here is DW needs more SHOWS to balance out the RIDES... and i mean real, CHOREOGRAPHED shows... not just a talk about tigers etc. and finally recognition from management that there IS a capacity problem, so that they can offer cooperation between management, guests and cast to resolve and rectify the problems as fast and as easily as possible. I can assure you guys that the ride queue times are accurate. I have diary entries of by-the-minute movements of every park we went to on my XDA. i think if a six flags park opened in australia, and was built from the ground up, rather than taking over an existing or defunct park (wonderland for example), i would definitely not complain about it. why? because Six Flags have a great record of park management, at least, in comparison to australian parks... REMEMBER - i detailed everything including the long wait at the ticket gates. we didnt line up from 9am and be the first people into the park so that we could be at the front of the queue for the first ride and to run from that ride to the next as soon as possible before the gates can fully spew forth the masses. im sure its quite possible to get 4 rides in the first hour if everything falls to a specific plan... and if you're trying to do it. but remember that 10am to 11am is only 1 hour in a park that operates for 7 hours. I dont accept a challenge to do 4 rides in the first hour... i put forth a challenge to ride 4 rides in the hour between 12 and 1... and i set the day as being the same as we went... and that is FOUR DAYS AFTER the opening of their newest THRILL RIDE or COASTER. finally... Amanda is not a thrill junkie like we are. she made her opinions public at my request, to satisfy something wonderbus said. please do not direct your criticisms and attacks at her if you dont like what she says... she made a statement based on an opinion of an AVERAGE GUEST in the park... and her feelings are predominantly those of the majority of people who attend those parks. if you don't like what she had to say... direct your complaints to the park management... because they are issues that the GENERAL PUBLIC have with the parks... not junkies like you and i.

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I will ride 4 rides in any hour you set, I'll even do it on Boxing Day, or any other public holiday. After spending the day at Dreamworld today with friends, it became even clearer to me that the problems with long queues doesn't lie with staffing issues. I think people are under the misconception that more staff = more productivity, hence more people going through the ride. This fact couldn't be anymore untrue. Alex, it is OK, you have fallen into the trap so many people do, but I will clarify things a little further. Overall, the biggest time waster in my opinion on ALL rides, is the public storing their loose items. Perhaps the staff or the amount of staff isn't really the big issue. Maybe the real delay lies within the lead up and the exit of the ride? Next time you go to the park, time how long it takes for the first person to enter, and then have everyone take off their loose items. Then time the amount of time the safety checks take, and the ride time. Then time the amount of time it takes for everyone to collect their things and leave, right up until the very last person. Richard, maybe this is something you could do and review? I know you did a thing on efficiency and perhaps this is another thing you could research? I'm sure people would be very interested to know how much time is actually spent. What do you think? In fact, I am very interested myself and may take a closer look at those aspects in the weeks to come. Personally, I believe the flaw lies simply with the design of the storage areas, and the time they take place. Just my opinion though, and feel free to criticise. Eliminate that aspect and people are simply getting on the ride, getting checked, riding, then exiting. Alex, you are correct in saying that maybe the capacity of the rides can contribute to the problem, but it seems to me that the more attractions Dreamworld gets, the more popular the place is. Adding more shows would DEFINITELY help, and I can see that they are heading the way of trying to offer 'other' types of attractions. Those being of course Big Brother, the new Farmyard Friends, the Nickelodeon shows and also shows in the Wildlife Area. However, BIGGER shows, which are advertised as an attraction, like those at Sea World and Movie World would be big crowd gainers. The old show they used to have on Captain Sturt was great, something of that proportion, but modernised, would be sensational. I am pleased that you gave us all a realistic solution to the long queues, rather than just saying, "more staff" or "get more rides that are bigger" like 99% of the people do.

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i don't believe i have fallen into any trap. i listed 4 or 5 realistic solutions, or part solutions to the problem. loose items etc, while it can take time, is generally minimal in the scheme of things. How much time does an operator waste walking between station and head of queue on cyclone? how much on ToT? i hear some groans coming already... but a better queueing system for a multi-seated ride is how wonderland ran bush beast, or demon. the last 5 metres or so before the train was divided into a queue for each pair of seats... if you wanted the front, and were prepared to wait, so be it... longer queue... therefore the people who want to rush through it, get a ride and dont care where they sit... get through the middle much faster. loose items is minimal. most people put most of this into their bag, and toss their bag onto the other side of the platform as they step into the ride.safety checks take place only after most people have sat down because the loaders are seeking "single riders" to fill a spot, closing the gates etc. (im speaking in general terms, not one specific ride). if you guys really want me to be specific i will post another thread, and go through each ride one at a time with exactly what could or should be done IMHO to improve capacity. honestly.... dreamworlds easiest solution is to build a show or two. WBMW, SW and also Wonderland demonstrated that it was so easy to clear out a high percentage of their attendance by running shows. at wonderland, going back a few years, there was Milennium Magic, which ran 2, sometimes 3 and in peak 4 times a day. MM was a MUST SEE at wonderland. then there was action man, generally once a day, goldrush theatre ran a HB show once or twice, AWP had blinky bill, and countless animal talks. character appearances, not just drive by's on suped up golf carts stopped more crowd to look, shake hands, take a photo or two and generally ease up on the queue lines. thsi is dreamworlds problem. a bandaid fix seems to be the numerous sideshow style attractions that have sprung up... how long have these been here guys? overall dreamworld needs to: increase staffing over peak periods.. .to assist with "loose articles", locating that "single rider" or "group of three" you hear so often, clearing out the last cycle of guests, etc add real, staged, purpose built shows. im talking a proper stadium style theatrette, with a high capacity. the little stage in nick central that looks like it would seat 30 kids is nowhere near big enough, im talking your dolphin coves, your police academies, and the show needs to be big enough, long enough, interesting enough and marketable enough that it will attract a LARGE crowd... and even if you've seen it before, you won't mind seeing it again. redesigning the queuelines for some attractions. i would get rid of the gap between the station and queue head at cyclone, and install a system like demon bushbeast. i have plenty more ideas i guarantee. but there are plenty of ideas i can think of, and too many to put here now. if anyone would like a new thread with my concepts, say so. i am preparing a letter to DW at the moment, as after my trip i have LOTS of letters to write, i am getting there slowly. ill post the content of the letter, as well as update youwith the responses from DW... cheers, Alex.

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dont lie bussy... you love to contradict
Damm you caught me. I have a short attention span so I have only scanned through the long posts but one point I did pick up was about shows. Shows are a great way to cut queue lines down. When the magic show was on at Wonderland queue lines at most rides would be cut dramatically, sometimes up to a half a hour. "The Bus is now leaving for Hallidays Cut, NSW"
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How much time does an operator waste walking between station and head of queue on cyclone? how much on ToT?
During holiday periods like you visited? A grand total of 0 minutes and 0 seconds. If you had a look around, the staffing levels increase during that time, and while the ride is actually going (it may be hard inside to notice, but you can hear it going, both TOT and Cyclone), another operator will come out and collect you. I don't know if we have many operators on the board from Dreamworld, but I wonder what they would have to say in relation to how much time is wasted with loose articles. I remember reading another post by someone who I think works there (in the efficiency thread) saying that it is a problem.
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Alex I think you have made some fair points in your posts. I visited DW for the first time in August and one of the first things both my friend and I noticed was the "Gap" between que and ride station, on GD, TOT, W-O and Cyclone. Particularly Cyclone is probably the best example of wasted time on this behalf. So I have to agree with you that fixing this style of queing would fix a lot of time problems. And yes i think wonderlands system was better with Demon, BB etc... I think DW has a good loose items system. Compare it to wonderland which you just chucked your stuff on the other side of the station or floor (SP) dreamworld have done a good job i think giving you a place to store your stuff while on the ride. Its easy and quick to chuck a backpak in the box and grab it again at the end of the ride. I have to dissagree with you tho when you say that shows and staged events would dramaticly help the capacity issues. Would work for a number of people in the park but not the majority. I along with i think most of the people who visit DW go for the rides and arent interested in shows. Also DW unlike SW does not have drawcard wildlife attractions (except for the tigers) However having said all that I believe the real problem with ride attractions is that most of DW's drawcard attractions are low capacity rides. GD has a capacity of what? 150-200 p/h and the same goes with cyclone (being a single train coaster) and TOT.

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Not too put too fine a point on it, but the reason people don't go to Dreamworld for shows is because Dreamworld doesn't really have any. The Imax theatre is currently the parks major show, and is showing all of 3 films a day (probably more now the holidays are on). The wildlife presentations are all fine, though don't really draw that many people into the park. I still think something along the lines of Spongebob 3D in the old Country Jamboree building would be really good for the park. The only other thing I can think of (besides a stunt show) is a purpose built Tiger Show stadium next door to Tiger Island (Think Crocoseam at Aussie Zoo but a bit smaller) where people can go to sit down and watch the tigers do their thing. I think a Tiger show could well turn into a "Must do" the same way the Dolphin Show is at Seaworld.

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I definitely agree with joz's Spongebob 3D solution. The best thing about an attraction like that is not only is it a high capacity 'show', it is also a ride. This would fit in better with Dreamworld than a standard (and probably boring) show. I would agree that more high capacity attractions would go a long way to helping with this problem

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Dreamworld has had some Awsome shows a few years back, b4 ice fever, and moscow circus(which they had twice)....they had Dreamworlds AQUACADE one xmas period...and DUELLING PIRATES another time...these were good shows..considering dreamworld built an inground Diving Depth pool for the aquacade show, and kept it there till the next year for duelling pirates. It was in the area behind the gravatron but that was all grassed e.t.c or where tigerisland is currently(im pretty sure it was b4 tiger island was there, so it was probably there. Anyhow, thses were good shows and very big considering they were only xmas promotions..they could have kept them running but didnt, the main reason i think is that as the holiday period went on ppl had seen the show, and at the end of the xmas holidays the crowds at the shows were not as big. It would be good to have a big show at dreams, but i dont know whether it would pay them to do it......considering if it was a big show and a venue had to be built,,,thats money they have let go for there next big RIDE.....rides are more of a draw card for them i think than a show.

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I must say that I am enjoying the vigour on display in this thread... quite impressive. MORE STAFF - would it really be helpful? There is a point at which adding additional staff becomes inefficient. It's a race between efficiency, cost, and human behaviour. The "law of diminishing returns" definately applies in all situations I have observed where staffing numbers have been incresed. Do any of the learned persons in this forum really believe that if 20 staff worked on the Tower of Terror that things (the queue) would move faster? Of course not. The "pod" is launch capable 45 seconds after parking. Unfortunately it takes longer than that to load riders, ensure that all loose belongings (including sneaky cameras) are away, and that all safety restraints are secure. RIDE SHOOTS. Cycle time is around the mid 30's from launch to park. Wait 45 seconds for computer system, well not really wait because riders have to disembark, collect their belongings, operators move to load next group. This process takes, on average 2 minutes. Perhaps Dreamworld ought to pull out the second pod?

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THE CLAW - as many of you may have ridden this ride, I was wondering just how the staff working on it could increase capacity. Curently 3 staff are working there each day. Perhaps dreamworld could roster 32 staff, so that each seat has it's own staff member, who will gather your belongings from you (since you are to slow to put them away yourself and/or didn't listen to the announcements) seat you, fasten the belt, and check your harness. Then all 32 staff would have to move to an appropriate area prior to ride operation. Do you now understand the "law of diminishing return? Damn, that would cost a bit, wouldn't it! THE CYCLONE - Ride capacities are limited by physical factors, like the number of seats, cycle times, and the time it takes to load, check, and unload riders. with 3 staff, this ride CANNOT operate any faster. Law of diminishing returns people! Yep, it is a long wait. You aren't the only person here today, so stop thinking that because you post on this forum you have any special entitlements. The staff are working as hard as they can to get you there quickly. Of course, if they were paid a bit better... but that's an on going issue right now. Voting on EBA in 2 weeks!

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OBSTRUCTURE, the issue of loose belongings, and their removal/storage is huge! It is, in my humble opinion, THE biggest time waster during the loading of riders. Not to mention the more stubborn riders, who insist that they wear their glasses, or take their video camera with them. This would really get my box open, so I'll stop shortly. It boils down to design, and that wonderful interaction between people. "Hello, welcome aboard the Tower of Terror" (hurry up and sit down, get your belongings organised... why can't you put your hat, glasses and camera in the bag BEFORE you get to this point?) I dream of the day when the desingers involve the opertors in the planning.

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Pandora I think all of that could have been said in one post, don't you? Yes there is a point at which staffing levels cancel themselves out and becomes redundant. However, more staff does relate directly to efficiency. I will give you a couple of examples from when I worked at Wonderland. On Saturday nights the queue lines for Demon and Probe would be close to 2 hours and sometimes longer, by adding more staff waiting times was reduced dramatically. At Demon, instead of having the operator and an unloader, two extra staff members were added, one to help check harnesses and one to group people and to check heights, tell people where to put belongings. By adding these two extra staff members it reduced waiting times and sometimes caused the staff to wait for the catch wagon to attach to the back of the train before dispatching. At Probe up to 5 extra staff were added, on at the front of the tunnel to help check heights, an extra person in the pre-show area telling people to get there stuff ready to leave on the ground and where to leave it, and 3 in the launch area, each responsible for one cabins loading, checking, and unloading. With this system people would be getting on as people were getting off and by the time the cable attached to the top of the cabin it was ready to go again. Extra staff does increase capacity but only to a point and beyond that it becomes inefficient. "The Bus is now leaving for Staff Well, Western Australia"

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