LW Issues

[cadboy 4]

Hey all I have two questions reguarding LW 1) What is the reason behind the extra track attachment behind the last pair of seats. (see picture below) 2) How much clearance is there either side of each seat. I remember after riding recently that I could almost tough one of the supports on the second right hand turn before the station. I am now reluctant to throw my arms up while riding should I be worried.

[ads086 45]

I'd be reluctant letting go of those handles at ANY time during Lethal Weapon.

[AlexB 3,723]

The extra section of the train? I don't know - but at a guess I would say something to do with the stability of the rear end of the train, maybe to take the stress of the second last wheels (which are holding the row of seats) as it whips around the bends, maybe its weight distribution? Maybe it is for the chain lift - the train is usually a little way down hill before it actually releases - perhaps it is for this reason - to hold the train a little longer so it doesn't exceed a certain speed in its first drop? I'd be interested in hearing the actual answer, but I would be very surprised if it didn't have SOMETHING to do with what is above. As far as the clearance - think about it - Movie World installs a ride that could potentially result in injury if someone kept their arms out - I DON'T THINK SO. If there were any risk - there would be MUCH more prominent signage advising to keep your arms in. Essentially - with those harnesses, i'd be surprised if you were able to extend too far out, but as far as being able to touch the support, that section is after the brake run, so it isn't really too risky if your fingers can brush it, because there isn't high speed issues to worry about - but I still think it would be further than you perceive it to be. Roller coasters are designed with these sorts of elements - in the case of suspended\inverted, the elements are generally below you - to make you pull your feet up because you think you're going to hit them. In conventional roller coasters, they are above you - and these are commonly known as head choppers. Roller Coasters are extensively tested to ensure that no rider can touch any part of the structure at any time. I have tried to google an image for a pull through, but i can't find one, so suffice it to say that a pull through involves a large sheet of plywood attached to the front of the train. the train is winched through the entire course, sometimes more than once, with the plywood attached (the plywood is circular in shape, and would be the absolute extreme distance that a person could extend their arms or legs outside the carriage). If the plywood hits anything - it fails. if the plywood doesn't hit anything - you have yourself a safe ride - so put your arms out and scream!

[cadboy 4]

So put your arms out and scream!

Ok Alex thanks for the explination I to am interested to hear what the extra section of carriage is for.

[S.W24 12]

regarding ya post. the extra section on coaster train is a motorised part so that it can run both into and out of the maintainance section which you can see from the line up que as there is no rollers on the peice of track that goes into that area because the track both moves and the coaster goes backwards out of the loading and unloading station to the maintainance station. and with your second question all coaster rides have a surface perimetre around the train and in the surface perimetre there is to be no scenery other track or supports. when a ride is put into a planing process the rides diagnostic is done and this is one of the key aspecs along with many other things. they must make shore nothing is in that surface perimetre. with superman for instance you can see the surface perimetre cutout in the side of the studio which you go through and the steam sprays. attched is a picture of a surface perimetre digram i just wanted to add last week on wed i rode leathal weapon at 10am just after a maintance person did and he sat in the front seat on the left hand side in the red train. so i decided i would also whn he got off to see if i could pick out wat he was checking out and well i did i had the whole coaster to my self it was bloody awsome but the problem is the plastic gaurd above the seat the hides the wheels well in some parts of the ride it makes a scraping noise very loud nosie obviosly not bad enough to close the ride but very freaky noise lol.

[Gazza 1,315]

Its just the zero car, which is a feature seen on trailered coasters. What trailered means is that instead of each car having wheels at the front and the back (Like on Scooby Doo for example) each car only has one pair of wheels, and is supported by the one behind, progressively, until you get to the back car with no seats (Of course, this arrangement can be reversed, with the zero car at the front) The connector between the last row of seats and the zero car doesn't have the ability to pivot in the pitch axis, so this means the back car and the zero car are sort of one unit, hence forming a stable rear of the train. A few other examples of zero cars: http://www.parkz.com.au/photo/AU/Gold_Coas...pe_s_Train.html The small nose cone on Superman is the zero car, and this is where Intamin places it on their trains. http://www.parkz.com.au/photo/US/Tampa/Bus...Corkscrews.html On Kumba, that rather cool looking thing on the front the zero car, and B&M uses zero cars on some of their models. http://www.parkz.com.au/photo/US/Valencia/...n_The_Ride.html Some of B&Ms models actually do have seats on the zero car....Look closely at the cars on the train, notice how they all fan out as they go around the loop, but the front two cars are actually parallel with each other and not fanning out from each other....because the front car is the zero car in this case. http://www.parkz.com.au/photo/AU/Gold_Coas...Sidewinder.html On Cyclone, the zero car is not much of a car at all, really just a pair of wheels you can see dangling off the back of the train. EDIT:

the extra section on coaster train is a motorised part so that it can run both into and out of the maintainance section which you can see from the line up que as there is no rollers on the peice of track that goes into that area because the track both moves and the coaster goes backwards out of the loading and unloading station to the maintainance station.

Nope, whats this? As long as there is at least one set of friction wheels making contact with a train, it doesn't matter if there are sections without them. Besides, there couldn't be motors in the car, because there isn't a set of electrical contacts running along the track. Edited August 14, 2008 by Gazza

[S.W24 12]

gee's no need to be rude about it but from my understanding of leathal weapon that my statement is true it doesnt nessasarly need to be the same as the one diagramed there are a lot of things rides have changed to suit both the park and the area and attraction. you are right in one sence by wat you said but i can ashore you that the leathal weapon both red and blue train the end peice is used for the purpose i spoke about. i can a shore you i spend more time that most people on this forum behind the scenes of most of MW attractions.

[Gazza 1,315]

How was I being rude? So, is this from a direct observation of the ride, or actually seeing motors in there (Eg if the cover was off), or from the mouth of someone in maintenance etc? Thing is, its an off the shelf ride, and while structural modifications would be something common when a park is installing a clone (Given every site is different) but they aren't going to adding weight (and extra potential friction losses given the wheels attached would be attached to motor) and just mechanically modifying a train for the sake of it, when they can just have friction wheels on the track like on every other installation. Guess the only way to settle this is to take a picture of the maintenance bay next time I'm there. Edit: Just looking at some other SLCs, you can see the back car on Blue Tornado doesn't have any rear motors, http://www.rcdb.com/ig961.htm?picture=6

Edited August 15, 2008 by Gazza

[Spotty 119]

Klassen24, I'm really not trying to sound rude here. But I can confirm right now that Lethal Weapon and any other Vekoma SLC does NOT have motors attached to the "Zero Car" at the rear of the train. Having watched lethal weapon do a train transfer many times before, you can clearly see that the friction wheels in the station reverse to allow the train to move backwards into the maintenance bay. The track rotates 180 degrees so that the transfer section above the track attaches and diverts the train locked down into the station backwards. There are friction wheels attached to the maintenance bay as well as one attached to the transfer section I believe. This would be adequate to power the train enough to make the short reverse trip. Gazza's photo in the previous post would also back up the fact that there are no motors attached to the zero car. His other post would also explain what the Zero Car is for so I don't see the point in explaining that one again. Once again I'm not trying to sound rude here but just answering your questions in regards to the Lethal Weapon.

[S.W24 12]

i would just like to add the fact that as gazza asked So, is this from a direct observation of the ride, or actually seeing motors in there (Eg if the cover was off), or from the mouth of someone in maintenance etc? iv seen it with the covers off iv been about 30centrmetres away from them i can assure you there are motors in there. i have seen them numourous amounts of times. gazza is right in the sence that it is also a zero car all train coasters have them and he explained the reason for it in which he is dead set correct. but leathal weapon does have motors in the zero car they were installed about 2 years after the opening because the method in which was being used originaly to get the train into the maintainance station wasnt efficeint and the train need more oomf. you will be suprised as to how much stuff gets added to attractions after opening when they uses these methods over and over again that something needs help. there is so much technology and equipment that has been added to superman that no one here will ever realise unless you have some sort of access to this field of work or have a job that is relavant to this field of work. rides get modifacations all the time there not always the same as what you read about over the net or were ever you get you info from. im not going to argue about this forever but iv seen them on a day to day basis trust me there are motors attached to the zero car.

[AlexB 3,723]

Yeah, and scooby doo's carriages have motors in them, that when activated by the fire-sensing laser eyes, can reverse the car out of danger. I'm waiting for proof - take a camera with you on one of your "day to day" visits to lethal weapon's maintenance bay, and post it up here for us. You'll be our biggest hero.

[DonjaiInLA 0]

Now i just don't know what to believe! SOMEONE CLARIFFY DAMNIT! Only superman could answer a question as life threatening as what is that tail section for! And Alex, That remark about Scooby Doos fire sensing lazers is ridiculous. they'd be able to climb down the stairs while the roof retracts.

Edited August 16, 2008 by DonjaiInLA

[AlexB 3,723]

Ok, so I did a bit of research. Now I know this isn't standing right next to the train in the maintenance bay, but I really don't think there is much here that can be seen. it just doesn't seem logical to have some mechanical propulsion device, which would affect the weight of the ride, and therefore the overall design tacked onto the back after installation. I mean think about it - if it needed them for every cycle, there'd be a feasibility to it, but the trains don't move into the maintenance bay all the time - it would be easier with a set of friction motors on the brake fins, as had been said, to push them backward or forward. Worst scenario - push the damn thing \ use a winch. Motors in the trains, particularly installed AFTER the ride was installed, are a REALLY bad idea.

[BNErider 94]

i just wanted to add last week on wed i rode leathal weapon at 10am just after a maintance person did and he sat in the front seat on the left hand side in the red train. so i decided i would also whn he got off to see if i could pick out wat he was checking out and well i did i had the whole coaster to my self it was bloody awsome but the problem is the plastic gaurd above the seat the hides the wheels well in some parts of the ride it makes a scraping noise very loud nosie obviosly not bad enough to close the ride but very freaky noise lol.

You sound like you were riding as a guest. Not a staff member who would know this - Plus I can assure you LW wouldn't be the only coaster with a motor on the back of the train. It would be a design seen worldwide. And if that was the case, members in this forum would know about it.

[Spotty 119]

Various people have posted remarks about the lethal weapon and the "motors." As it has been basically proven it would not be feasable to attach the motors to the ride and I can 100% assure you that there are no such motors on the ride. There are friction wheels leading back to the maintenence depot and there is just no need for them. There have even been pictures that show that the motors do not exist. Myth Busted.

[djrappa 1,922]

This is the one thing I hate about anonymous and alias posters. Myself and Rabid both show that you can be honest and upfront about who you are and still keep your job. If you are going to sprout on about how your BOH all the time and in maintenance areas, just say who the hell you are and then you might be taken seriously. Until then you have to appreciate the amount of people who post complete BS pretending to know what they are talking about and stating it as FACT.

[joz 2,049]

Exactly, I'm known by a few in HR, and I'm hanging on to my job just fine.

[cadboy 4]

Now I am not trying to be rude here but I am sure klassen would not lie about something like this. Unless you have actually seen the zero car with its cover off then you have no evidence proving his theroy incorrect. Now lets drop the subject and get on with life.

[Richard 879]

To me it's the other way around. Unless klassen24 can prove the existence of a device that exists on no other similar ride in the world then I see no reason for members to be anything but sceptical. I don't think anyone is being rude or accusive; most of the comments so far have been intelligently presented counter-arguments. The plausibility of a motor fitting in an area no more than about 20cm across, being capable of moving a multiple-tonne train and working in unison with the ride's existing PLC/computer systems is implausible to say the least. Then there's issues of getting power to it and of course what exactly it tracks on to provide this propulsion. Then of course the fact that the track is equipped with a perfectly adequate system for moving trains in and out of the transfer track.

[Gazza 1,315]

The thing I find more interesting that klassen24 didn't give the primary function of the zero car ('support' for the last row of seats) when giving his reason, instead going off on this tangent about it being a motor car....and despite AlexB mentioning

I don't know - but at a guess I would say something to do with the stability of the rear end of the train,

he didn't actually acknowledge it as the reason for it until I explained it (He could have, for example said "Yeah, AlexB was right, it is for stability blahblahblah....." in the first place)

[Tommo22 0]

hi im new to this website well i come and look at the forums regulary and iam a themepark junkie. and iv come across this bebate and thought my assistance myt be of great help. i worked at movieworld for 7 years in maintaince from 1993 till 2000 my names Tom. id have to say everyone has proven a good case and most of you are right in the sence that it would be stupid to install motors in the zero car as it wouldnt serve its correct purpose. but klassen is correct there is a motor installed in both leathal weapon trains i worked on this attraction for 4 years and did its yearly maintaince along with other people. the ride opened in 1995 and the motors were installed in 1997 which was when i started on the ride and they were something we had a lot of problems with and would get regular calls from op's because the ride was having issues. the ride was the first of its kind in australia and was custom-made by vekoma international in the neatherlands for warner brothers movieworld. the reason for the motors to be installed on the attraction was because the friction wheels designed for the coaster in the maintance bay werent working the way they should have countless occasions when the ride first opened it wouldnt go all the way into the station because the metal probe that goes between the friction wheels was jaming the motors were put on the zero car to add more push allowing the train to go fully into the station. this is the first i have ever heard of this type of problem with a vekoma coaster and havnt heard of one since. but from what i have heard now the problem has been fixed when all the stations friction wheels were replaced back in 2001 and the motors were most likely removed. so in on sence klassen24 is right but i dont think the motors exist on either train anymore. i hope this helps

[cadboy 4]

Well Tommy welcome to the forums Thanks alot for your input. Well turns out klassen was right after all for most of what he said. Although all other members posting was very logical and made alot of sense. Cheers,

[BNErider 94]

It's the same person. Trust me.

[Skeeta 2,405]

I just figured that out too. You would think someone would be smart enough to type in a different manner. Having motors in the last car is the funniest thing I have heard all year.

[Gazza 1,315]

It would make sence for Richo to check before people go saying this is the same guy,