Parkz News New share price lows as Village Roadshow blames poor theme park performance on Commonwealth Games and wet weather

[rappa]

Here's the thing... this "they gain the gate revenue but lose all that f&b revenue" argument doesn't hold up.

Because they people that are relying on the bargain basement pass prices are not spending in park. They are eating at maccas, and at their cars in the car parks.

It's also been proven that bigger crowds can reduce f&b sales because people don't want to wait in the long lines.

It really is that high ticket price, one or 2 visits, high in park spend customer that the parks need for financial growth.

[webslave]

I guess the other option - and this is probably heresy - is to offer worthwhile food and beverage options in the park at reasonable prices?

[pushbutton]

3 hours ago, webslave said:

I guess the other option - and this is probably heresy - is to offer worthwhile food and beverage options in the park at reasonable prices?

Could be worth a shot! 

[MickeyD]

8 hours ago, webslave said:

I guess the other option - and this is probably heresy - is to offer worthwhile food and beverage options in the park at reasonable prices?

Genius.

[Jamberoo Fan]

On 06/05/2018 at 2:42 PM, djrappa said:

Here's the thing... this "they gain the gate revenue but lose all that f&b revenue" argument doesn't hold up.

Because they people that are relying on the bargain basement pass prices are not spending in park. They are eating at maccas, and at their cars in the car parks.

It's also been proven that bigger crowds can reduce f&b sales because people don't want to wait in the long lines.

It really is that high ticket price, one or 2 visits, high in park spend customer that the parks need for financial growth.

I agree but if there are long lines, wouldn't that point to a need for either:

1. Faster checkout/cooking operations (without decreasing food/service quality)?
2. A redistribution of visitors' purchasing times (so pre-ordering, afternoon take-away sales, discounts/offers in daily off-peak periods etc.)
3. Larger existing food & beverage outlets (so larger kitchen & more staff and checkouts)?
4. More new seasonal or mobile food and beverage outlets?

The points above are just for reducing queue lengths. It would only really improve their food & beverage revenues if the extra revenue resulting from the increase in food & beverage demand (due to the shorter queues) boosts the total food & beverage revenue higher than the total food & beverage operation costs (which would be higher than before if some of the points above were implemented). If they make a higher profit than when the queues were long, even better.

15 hours ago, webslave said:

I guess the other option - and this is probably heresy - is to offer worthwhile food and beverage options in the park at reasonable prices?

Assuming any of the points I made above aren't needed, more all-day reasonable prices would increase demand and lead to longer lines (similar to what @djrappa said) which would result in visitors not joining the queues due to their length, thus leading to less sales & possibly the food and beverage outlets losing money? If they don't lose money then it's a great idea.

[Brad2912]

MW’s lines suffer from the fact there is only one traditional food outlet being Gotham. It’s struggled for capacity since they decided to not open Wild West Food Outlet which I haven’t seen operate for over 2 years. Outside of Gotham there is Dirty Harrys which is specialised and not for everyone (especially kids) and Ricks which again isn’t what many are after. Then there is the fact it’s closed by 3pm leaving the park bereft of actual food other than ice cream & churros after that... 

[pushbutton]

I've long thought the parks could really do a lot better with their food offerings (both on quality and price).

They could probably get some inspiration by taking a look at some of the modern dining options now being offered at major shopping centres, for example "The Patio" at Pacific Fair. The food there is a step above the traditional shopping centre food court options like McDonald's and a low quality asian outlet, yet it's still fast service and very reasonably priced.

They could do much worse than inviting some of the operators of such outlets to open as tenants within their parks. The obvious alternative to that is the parks try to imitate them, but in all honesty I just don't think they have the right expertise for that at the present time.

[iwerks]

It’s funny to see you guys get to what Adventure World offers. Yes, if you are season pass holder at AW you get 20% off all f&b besides alcohol. They also have fresh food offerings like sushi, salads and wraps. After discount, a chicken Caesar salad, fruit salad and a drink costs just under $20.

The thing is, it takes about 5 years before most customers realise that the food offerings are much improved.

[Slick]

I reckon there's two issues at play here.

Firstly, it's not the price. Parks would go broke if they tried to make low cost meals for low-yield customers (a.k.a. stereotypical enthusiasts) who are totally fine eating Maccas in the carpark to save a few dollars. Those folks just aren't the target market.

What I reckon's actually going on is that the quality you get for the premium price you pay is way off at places like Gotham Cafe. My last few visits tend to reflect this, there was no one around and four staff doing a whole lot of nothing except chatting to one another, and yet my meal was still, at best, lukewarm and underwhelming, and no amount of beer changed that, believe me.

It's just not rocket science. These parks want the high-yielding customers to make repeat visits, it's where the money's at for them, but those customers aren't going to spend money again at those places or be inclined to take their families back to the park regularly if they feel like they're being gouged when they come to pay and taken for a ride by how average the food is.

I'm happy to pay a premium if it's convenient, hot and fresh, and I reckon most people are, too. From there, if you do what Disney do and create an experience for the premium price you pay (in their case, it's everything from Turkey Legs to Mickey Mouse shaped doughnuts) then for the little bit extra it costs the park to make they have repeat customers lining up around the block. That, however, requires vision from someone like Clark Kirby to instigate, not middle-management who have been told to find new ways to shave a few cents here and there to meet a budget line.

Sidenote - I should also point out that I think Movie World do get it right at places like the Dirty Harry Grill - it's unique, it's tasty, it's fresh, it's even a cool thing to see being made as you walk past and I look forward to grabbing a bite there. Thing is, I feel like in terms of Village's other food & bev joints, it's an exception to the rule.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Roachie

[Whombex]

2 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

MW’s lines suffer from the fact there is only one traditional food outlet being Gotham. It’s struggled for capacity since they decided to not open Wild West Food Outlet which I haven’t seen operate for over 2 years. Outside of Gotham there is Dirty Harrys which is specialised and not for everyone (especially kids) and Ricks which again isn’t what many are after. Then there is the fact it’s closed by 3pm leaving the park bereft of actual food other than ice cream & churros after that... 

Another big ride in Wild West would keep crowds large enough to reopen the food outlet there.

RMC/GCI would do fine.

@Roachie - you mean like this? Branded bun and cookie? (Disneyland Paris, ‘13)

Edited May 7, 2018 by Glubbo

[Levithian]

I liked when they tried some new food options at the deli, the american style sandwiches. They were pretty tasty, big serving and well priced. I thought they would continue expanding, a few different gourmet style salads would have been awesome. But it all seems to have been shelved. Not sure if they didnt sell or just didnt give it enough time. Its a pitty because gotham is utterly rubbish. Once upon a time their burgers were pretty juicy and certainly tasty. Ive had 2 in the last year and both times im sure the bun was stale. 

It reminds me, remember when they did pulled pork burgers with "slaw" and lattice fries at west burgers? Those things and the loaded fries tasted amazing. I dont mind paying 15-20 for a burger and a fries if its like that. Full of flavour, very filling, not what you expected at a theme park. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Levithian

[Richard]

Yeah the watering down of the new deli menu was a big step back. The sandwiches on offer like the Reuben were authentic and as good as you'd find at any bar or cafe serving this style of American food. The lazy answer is they didn't find much of an audience for this style of food in a theme park setting, but you also never see much of a crowd there ordering the usual fare of pies and premade wraps/sandwiches so you tend to wonder if the venue just doesn't get the foot traffic and promotion it should.

I think ideally it should have been built as an extension of the coffee shop where it'd be a much better companion outlet than the pointless combination of a modern deli next to Ben & Jerry's.

No objections to the prices VRTP charge for F&B generally speaking -- it should be premium prices -- but I think they are incredibly foolish to not be modernising their staples. They don't exist in a bubble and McDonalds are no longer the benchmark; every major shopping centre foodcourt offers ample high quality, modern and fresh fast food. The burgers on offer, even at seemingly premium outlets like Dockside Tavern run the gamut from average to embarassing.

The business model for the parks relies on repeat visits; I suspect bean counters are happy so long as the key outlets are doing good business with little regard for the fact that other would-be major outlets are almost always shut, operate for reduced hours or simply under-perform. Someone probably met a KPI by shaving a few cents off the cost per serve with those cardboard fries. All the while there's countless TripAdvisor reviews urging people to steer clear of the food on offer. And then how many passholders quietly decide "never again" on a daily basis?

[pushbutton]

Last time I went in the deli was about 6 months ago. I was going to order a pie, but saw not 1 but 2 flies inside the glass pie cabinet.

I stood and watched for at least a few minutes whilst staff served customers in front of me. Granted they were busy, but they should definitely have seen these flies and responded accordingly. They did open the cabinet several times, but did not do anything about the flies!

For some reason I haven't been in there since then. Not sure why, but I just haven't felt tempted.

Edited May 8, 2018 by pushbutton

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Meat group!

[pushbutton]

Here's what I'd do at Movie World.

1. Covert the deli into a crepe cafe (goes much better with adjacent ice-cream shop, and they're quick and very cheap to make). Because they're so cheap to make, a very substantial profit can be made without guests feeling ripped off. Also I'd extend the cafe seating area by enclosing the outdoor area behind the shop, and make it into a nice comfortable dining room.

2. Greatly improve the quality of Gotham burger bar, probably best achieved by getting an established external party to run it. I'd also make it part of their contract to have the Wild West burger bar open whenever the park is expected to be busy enough to make it worthwhile (agree on a fixed minimum level / number of guests).

3. Refurbish and reopen the building near the front of the park that used to be "Stars bar" as a new restaurant (could still be licensed) selling high quality, but fast service asian meals. Again this would be best run by an outside business, but I'm sure if the food was good and the prices were right it would be extremely popular.

4. Review the menu at Ricks and evaluate whether it should be changed or not.

I'd give all pass-holders a 10% discount on all food and beverages. That would serve to encourage pass-holders to eat in the park rather than outside it.

I'd look carefully at each of the dine-in restaurants (not only at Movie World but all the parks), with the aid of the appropriate specialists, to see if there's opportunities to theme them, adding some fun elements. The best example I've seen of this is the projection mapping technique similar to the one shown in the video, but that's probably best suited to a more formal restaurant, perhaps like the ones at Sea World Resort. Elsewhere, more simple but still effective themeing / entertainment could potentially be added.

 

Lastly I'd launch a very well publicised money-back guarantee on food quality at all food outlets in Village parks. It would be simply "enjoy your meal or your money back"! That should give guests the confidence to  try eating in-park, as well as put pressure on the operators of the outlets to ensure they do provide a high quality meal to every customer. Yes there would be a few guests who would abuse such a guarantee of course, but if the quality is in fact good, the benefits of such schemes far outweigh the costs.

Edited May 8, 2018 by pushbutton

[Brad2912]

Push I like most of your ideas but the “enjoy or refund” would not work and couldn’t even be considered. When your target market is teenagers and very young adults, I think you under estimated the “few” people who would abuse the system for free food - it would be literally hundreds, everyday. 

[iwerks]

Wow - so many good points. I liked a lot of Push’s too, except the projection mapping. Just get the basics right, because if you don’t it will take years to turn around your reputation.

I always thought that giving away the gate encourages crappy operations and expensive food. Why should they load rides quickly when you’re a season pass holder - you can always ride another time. Why not gouge the food prices to cover the lower entry costs?

So often we judge our theme park experience on what we eat and what’s available to eat. It’s always sad when a park goes backwards.

[pushbutton]

27 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

Push I like most of your ideas but the “enjoy or refund” would not work and couldn’t even be considered. When your target market is teenagers and very young adults, I think you under estimated the “few” people who would abuse the system for free food - it would be literally hundreds, everyday. 

There's a major hotel chain in the UK called Premier Inn. They guarantee you'll get a good nights sleep, or your money back.

I've stayed there about 30 nights over the years, and only claimed a refund for one night when there were a few noisy idiots running around knocking on other guests doors at 3am.

Just because there's a chance something might be abused isn't a good reason not to at least consider it, and give it a try if it seems appropriate!

[pin142]

Enjoy or money back will work really well at a park with a large Bogan population nearby....

[Levithian]

Its a pitty we havent seen any further developments of the lakeside precinct idea. It could have meant a few new food choices that could be open during lunch service too without added pressure on the park to staff another eatery. 

The other school of thought is you dont need a lot of choice at a theme park (especially the size of aussie parks), you just need to do it right. 

Everyone expects a fast food option. Given the cost and the relatively small serving size (overloaded with chips to make up for it) theres no reason to get burgers and fries, fish and chips, and chicken tenders/strips and fries wrong. I suspect its fallen into the trap of every single ingredient being processed. No fresh or prepared ingredients, its all out of packets, fridges and freezers. 

The cafe crowd. Its one thing thats actually pretty good at the village bean. Im not a coffee snob, but ive been happy with what is provided and a slice of cake or muffin.

The healthy choice. These days you cannot operate any food related business without catering to meet these demands. The poor quality of your other choices is only amplified when this is neglected. Every village park falls flat.

The boutique. They have dirty harrys extension which probably doesnt get the business it deserves. You can probably only sustain one of these in a park the size of movieworld though. It makes sense they went with the mexican/tex mex options as theres lots of profit in it. Because of the size of the park, this ties into below;

Rics is a let down. No, its more than that, its really a disaster when you think what it could be. Everything it offers could be provided anywhere in the park, and what it offers is not that great. So here you have a themed international class restaurant pushing out greasy pizzas and stodgy pasta. 

It should probably be the premium dining service and bar. Push the rics setting more as a bar experience and use the legends dining room for food service. Nobody really needs all you can eat pizza and pasta at a theme park. Pizza hut nearly went broke doing it 20 years ago, why is it here? Im thinking you could have a set menu giving you maybe 3 or 4 options that you could purchase with your entry. So you have a proper sit down lunch with a fixed cost. If thats not exciting enough, you could tie it in with some sort of executive "celebrity" chef menu if you wanted something exclusive. Rotate it though every 3 months so the menu is always fresh.

It might free up some of the kitchens a little to help improve some of the other food options in the park instead of relying on outside providers to do all the work. 

When you think about it, theres 2 full commerical kitchens plus maybe 6 quick service/fast food sized kitchens in the park. Does the current output represent the facilities they have on site? Everything feels far too packaged to me, kitchens just sitting idle or closed up.

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Levithian

[Brad2912]

3 hours ago, pushbutton said:

There's a major hotel chain in the UK called Premier Inn. They guarantee you'll get a good nights sleep, or your money back.

I've stayed there about 30 nights over the years, and only claimed a refund for one night when there were a few noisy idiots running around knocking on other guests doors at 3am.

Just because there's a chance something might be abused isn't a good reason not to at least consider it, and give it a try if it seems appropriate!

Push...I used to manage a large retail operation with 5 mins of MW. The same target market from MW used to flog about $1-2000 worth of goods WEEKLY. They’d scam a lunch without batting an eyelid, and it would then take away a service person or manager to deal with all the “complaints” or to manage their authenticity 

The target market for your hotel example isn’t teenagers, who wouldn’t fork out the price for the hotel anyway... 

[Jamberoo Fan]

On 07/05/2018 at 7:09 PM, pushbutton said:

They could probably get some inspiration by taking a look at some of the modern dining options now being offered at major shopping centres, for example "The Patio" at Pacific Fair. The food there is a step above the traditional shopping centre food court options like McDonald's and a low quality asian outlet, yet it's still fast service and very reasonably priced.

They could do much worse than inviting some of the operators of such outlets to open as tenants within their parks.

According to Pacific Fair's website, The Patio is a "casual dining precinct" that includes Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, which MW already has. Based on that, it seems MW already has looked that way for inspiration & as a result, got Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream to open in the park. So how much worse can MW do? 😜

On 07/05/2018 at 6:32 PM, Brad2912 said:

MW’s lines suffer from the fact there is only one traditional food outlet being Gotham.

On 07/05/2018 at 7:43 PM, Roachie said:

What I reckon's actually going on is that the quality you get for the premium price you pay is way off at places like Gotham Cafe.

Everytime I've been to MW, I've visited Gotham City Cafe for lunch (Like @Brad2912 said it's the only "traditional" food outlet at MW. Also, there is a lot of undercover seating there around Gotham City Hall). Also, with the amount of rides, attractions & shows to visit at MW for, as @Roachie called, 'a high-yield customer', fast food is the best lunch option - it allows them to free up more time to visit more attractions in the limited time they have there.

Whilst I agree with what @Roachie said in the quote above, is it possible that food is more expensive at Gotham City Cafe despite it's quality simply due to the laws of supply & demand? That is, because it's the only "traditional" food outlet at MW, there are too many potential customers for the amount of meals they can prepare so they increase the price to encourage the potential customers who don't want to pay that amount to head to the other food & beverage outlets? (Mind you, I don't know what the pricing is like at MW's other food & beverage outlets) This results in Gotham City Cafe's customers paying prices that are higher than the value of the food/beverages the Cafe offers.

If that's the case, why not open more Gotham City Cafe-like outlets? As the problem with the tactic mentioned above is that the other food & beverage outlets are either perceived as too time-consuming (bar, grill, buffet) or the food/beverages on offer are too small to be considered a 'lunch meal' (coffee, drinks, desserts, ice-cream, meat, vegetables, dips, breads & fruit) so they head to Gotham City Cafe anyway or less likely, just skip lunch, the latter losing MW valuable revenue in the process if they don't eat until after they've left the park but it's most probably replaced by revenue from regular smaller food & beverage purchases throughout the afternoon from those sub-'lunch meal' outlets. Maybe that's why they are there? Either way, I'd prefer more Gotham City Cafe-like outlets than heaps of sub-'lunch meal' outlets.

Wild West Roadhouse & the former Yosemite Sam's Diner area are perfect places to open these types of outlets (Both of those outlets are already similar to Gotham City Cafe). I've noticed these outlets are spaced about 115 metres apart at MW and based on that, other locations for these types of outlets to open include:

• Eastern end of Main Street
• DC Rivals HyperCoaster entrance
• Arkham Asylum area
• Wild West Falls observation area

So you get 7 Gotham City Cafe-like outlets operating year-round (or according to attendance). Gotham City Cafe's seating capacity seems to be no more than 100 people at any one time so you'd get a total capacity of about 700 people at any one time if those 7 Gotham City Cafe-like outlets all opened. 

If still needed after more Gotham City Cafe-like outlets open, turn the other current outlets into 'seasonal' outlets - this would mean total food & beverage operating costs would only increase during the peak periods, when they are more likely to get the revenue they need in return. If those other current outlets are not needed at all anymore, just give them a new use.

Hopefully, that would mean food & beverage prices could be reduced throughout MW so the price meets the value of the food/beverages.

10 hours ago, Richard said:

The lazy answer is they didn't find much of an audience for this style of food in a theme park setting, but you also never see much of a crowd there ordering the usual fare of pies and premade wraps/sandwiches so you tend to wonder if the venue just doesn't get the foot traffic and promotion it should.

In a park like MW, where visitors don't have a central meeting place, finding somewhere to sit & eat is important. The Deli's location doesn't have any large areas full of tables. There are some behind the outlet (but they are 'hidden' in the park & disconnected from the actual outlet) & some inside the outlet (but not many people want to sit & eat next to a queue). MW did add recently a lot of tables & seats in the Main Street plaza area recently but they are technically 'separate' from the Deli so you're just as (or even more) likely to find people eating meals from Gotham City Cafe.

Excluding it's obvious appearance in the park map, looking at Google Street View, the Deli doesn't seem to be a highly visible store - faint signs on the windows & 2 really small signs on each shopfront saying Main Street Deli. The Drinks & Churros carts next to the store are way more obvious and the Ben & Jerry's sign further down the street is more noticeable too (The 'Taxidermy' sign above the store is even more noticeable too). Maybe MW should consider putting 2 large bright signs halfway up each shopfront saying 'DELI'? That should tell visitors there is a deli there.

2 hours ago, Levithian said:

The healthy choice. These days you cannot operate any food related business without catering to meet these demands. The poor quality of your other choices is only amplified when this is neglected. Every village park falls flat.

I don't think VRTP's healthier options are that neglected. MW's park map mentions out of their 11 food & beverage outlets, 5 have 'healthy food options', 9 have 'vegetarian food' & 6 are 'gluten friendly'. They even let you bring in fruit & bottled water to, at least, MW:

Quote

Can I bring my own lunch to Warner Bros. Movie World?

...You can bring in fruit and bottled water.

[Levithian]

Have you seen the options though?

As for the deli, its literally 8 paces to the plaza area where there are picnic style tables and chairs everywhere. If thats not enough, theres tables and chairs behind the deli and ben and jerrys too.

You dont need a food outlet at arkham. Theres not enough foot traffic to warrant it. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

For all your verbose analysis, you're ignoring the fact that the Wild West outlet is barely opened year round. If they're not finding the demand to open that one outlet, how the fuck do you think they're going to deal with SEVEN of them?

None of what you've said will work for the simple fact that they can't even get ONE outlet right. Outsourcing is stupid, and shouldn't be an option because you're only diluting your profits further - what they need to do is rethink their current outlets, rather than building more that will remain shuttered year round.

[New display name]

1 hour ago, AlexB said:

 how the fuck do you think they're going to deal with SEVEN of them?

True words spoken.