Tower of Terror ongoing/indefinite closure (Dreamworld)

[Santa07]

If I had a dollar every time someone on these forums complained about ToT’s extended downtime, I’d have enough money to knock the ride down and upgrade the giant drop.

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

Ride should be open within the next few days according to the Dreamworld website, unless it is most likely delayed again.

[joel]

As of Sunday the car didn’t appear to be back in the tunnel

[Flynn_Smith]

21 minutes ago, joel said:

As of Sunday the car didn’t appear to be back in the tunnel

I'd like to know how you are able to see inside the tunnel? 🤔

[Jamberoo Fan]

On 12/09/2018 at 10:58 AM, XxMrYoshixX said:

When you discount Wipeout, TOT is easily the next ride at Dreamworld to get the axe. Ridership is low...

On 12/09/2018 at 12:04 PM, Gold Coast Amusement Force said:

Are you joking, it's the most popular ride at Dreamworld and always has a queue

On 13/09/2018 at 12:56 AM, pin142 said:

Tower along with all the other coasters are Dreamworld have queues due to their stupidly low capacity. Building a low capacity ride and getting long queues doesn't mean it is popular it just means it is horrible at handling crowds.

Adding on to what @pin142 said about queues, all rides have a capacity so the level of ridership is finite. This means you can't compare rides' popularity based on the number of people who rode it in 1 day. Another factor affecting that method is the amount of people who 're-ride' the ride. You know, those who hop off the ride and immediately re-join the queue. That would cause the data to be exaggerated.

A ride's popularity is probably best defined as the amount of people who want to ride it.

This is why, apart from the safety concerns, the closure of Thunder River Rapids has & will have such a negative effect on Dreamworld. Unless most people were visiting for a new attraction, that ride was the main reason people visited Dreamworld because they wanted to ride Thunder River Rapids. It was a universal ride.

Dreamworld consistently stated prior to 2016, Thunder River Rapids was it's most popular ride (and that opened in 1986!). Rocky Hollow Log Ride was always in 2nd place (and that opened in 1981!) but now clearly takes 1st place. It says a lot about the park that only 1 other ride since 1981 has opened that has proven to be more popular/universal than one of the opening day attractions. Usually, the more universal a ride is, the more popular it is.  Simply, theme parks that cater for all with an attraction line-up that aligns with the diversity of their audience is successful.

Tower Of Terror II is a high thrill ride so the people who would ride this are usually thrill-seekers, a portion of the market. In short, Tower Of Terror II is not a universal ride as there are a lot of people who would not want to queue for this ride.

Tower Of Terror II not being the most popular/universal ride in the park is not a good reason to close it. However, in regards to using Tower Of Terror II's queue length as justification for a future closure, since it's carriage can hold 14 people, if the queue is less than 14 people long when they are loading the ride, then the ride at that point in time isn't currently sustainable to operate. That is, the ride does have “low ridership”. The ride should operate at times when they know there will be at least 14 people in the queue when they load the ride. If there are always fewer than 14 people in the queue when they load the ride then it is definitely time to stop the turbine.

However, it would be fine to keep operating it if it became an upcharge and/or with less seating and/or operating at certain hours of the day...or year.

So how many people still want to ride Tower Of Terror II?

Edited September 18, 2018 by Jamberoo Fan

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

9 hours ago, Jamberoo Fan said:

...that ride was the main reason people visited Dreamworld because they wanted to ride Thunder River Rapids. It was a universal ride.

Despite what Dreamworld may have said about the ride, I disagree. TRRR and Rocky Hollow are wet rides, and as such is one that we would often skip unless it was quite a warm day, AND we had come prepared with a change of clothes or shoes etc.

Ridership on these two attractions tends to be lower on cooler days, wetter days etc, whereas the dry rides obviously see similar proportions of riders all year round (proportionate to park patronage).

I think the 'assumed' popularity of both rides can be attributed in a large part to the fact that restrictions on riders for height, age, etc were low or non-existent, rather than the quality or experience of the ride. (Likewise, Vintage cars, I daresay, would have a higher ridership if it were still in its original position - it wouldn't get it near the top of the list, but i doubt it would be suffering as much as it is if it hadn't been moved).

This just highlights the park's need for a dry, all-ages ride that is not only suitable for all ages and sizes to ride, but also an experience that is enjoyed by all - something I hope will be filled by i-Ride.

[joel]

11 hours ago, Flynn_Smith said:

I'd like to know how you are able to see inside the tunnel? 🤔

the guide blocks to position the vehicle on the track were still on track at the end of the tunnel.

[themeparkaddict]

TOT has been pushed back to 27th Sep according to the DW website.

[Brad2912]

Closed for the school holidays.. expect no rush to get it back on line if it misses the peak period 

[mssveattck]

1 hour ago, themeparkaddict said:

TOT has been pushed back to 27th Sep according to the DW website.

The website now says 30th of September. 

[Flynn_Smith]

3 hours ago, joel said:

the guide blocks to position the vehicle on the track were still on track at the end of the tunnel.

What? 😂

[Jamberoo Fan]

On 19/09/2018 at 7:42 AM, AlexB said:

Despite what Dreamworld may have said about the ride, I disagree. TRRR and Rocky Hollow are wet rides, and as such is one that we would often skip unless it was quite a warm day, AND we had come prepared with a change of clothes or shoes etc.

Ridership on these two attractions tends to be lower on cooler days, wetter days etc, whereas the dry rides obviously see similar proportions of riders all year round (proportionate to park patronage).

I think the 'assumed' popularity of both rides can be attributed in a large part to the fact that restrictions on riders for height, age, etc were low or non-existent, rather than the quality or experience of the ride. (Likewise, Vintage cars, I daresay, would have a higher ridership if it were still in its original position - it wouldn't get it near the top of the list, but i doubt it would be suffering as much as it is if it hadn't been moved).

This just highlights the park's need for a dry, all-ages ride that is not only suitable for all ages and sizes to ride, but also an experience that is enjoyed by all - something I hope will be filled by i-Ride.

Whilst I understand what you're saying, in the end, you still wanted to ride Thunder River Rapids & Rocky Hollow Log Ride. The rides themselves were fine but external non-ride factors made you decide to postpone your participation.

Think of it the opposite way around using skiing as the example. People want to go skiing but they can only do that in the winter. Skiing is still popular and universal but it has low statistics due to it only being possible for roughly 3 months a year. So whilst the statistics show that, in 1 year, not many people went skiing compared to say playing basketball, skiing is still a universal activity. Again, that's why the level of 'ridership' shouldn't be used as an indicator of popularity.

The other 2 'indicators' I was arguing against - capacity & queue length - can be illustrated again using the skiing example:

• Closing long skiing runs doesn't mean skiing is less popular - maybe they couldn't afford chairlift maintenance?
• Short queues to chairlifts doesn't mean skiing isn't popular - maybe they are high capacity chairlifts?
• And back to the 'ridership' indicator, no one at a ski resort doesn't mean skiing isn't popular, maybe there is no snow?

You note the "low or non-existent" restrictions are more of the reason why Thunder River Rapids & Rocky Hollow Log Ride are popular but that is exactly the first criteria in determining a ride's universality: How much of the market can ride this? The ride's quality (perceived entertainment value) then narrows that universality down followed by the experience (perceived intensity), which narrows it down even further if it is high intensity. Then you have the amount of the market who want to ride this. Clearly, the latter 2 requirements could change after your 1st ride. Using that methodology, you can see how Thunder River Rapids & Rocky Hollow Log Ride are the most 'universal' whilst Tower Of Terror II isn't.

I agree with everything else you said though but i-Ride, which I agree would have been the perfect Thunder River Rapids replacement for DW, isn't that in my opinion anymore because of it's proposed exterior and future expansion around Australia & New Zealand. A lot of the non-Gold Coast Australia/New Zealand market would not visit Dreamworld for the i-Ride if it becomes available in their nearest capital city and it's exterior doesn't help you feel like you're on a holiday. It reminds you of your daily visits to a shopping centre and walks around a bustling city on a work day to business conventions.  It does everything to make you forget you are on a holiday.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

As usual you've missed the point.

In summer, when the snow has melted, Ski Resorts repurpose much of their space into activities that can be done in the summer to try and attract the crowds. Nevertheless they are less popular during the warmer months, and tend to reduce staff, close sections of the park, and they also make less money.

A water ride is not universal because it is affected by external factors. You've listed your argument based on people wanting to ride them.

Quote

A ride's popularity is probably best defined as the amount of people who want to ride it.

Fact is, I (and i'm sure a lot of other people) dont want to ride water rides when it's cold, windy, raining etc. The fact it has universal appeal only applies when its a hot day because people want to get cool.

 

On 21/09/2018 at 10:24 PM, Jamberoo Fan said:

in the end, you still wanted to ride Thunder River Rapids & Rocky Hollow Log Ride.

No, I didn't. And I never said that.

On 19/09/2018 at 7:42 AM, AlexB said:

and as such is one that we would often skip unless it was quite a warm day, AND we had come prepared

One could easily say

...is a high thrill ride, and as such is one that we would often skip unless we hadn't eaten lunch before arrival AND we had someone to look after the kids.

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

Ok, getting off topic now.

I think these are the “blockers” @joel was talking about - the yellow things at the end of the tunnel.

 

[red dragin]

Look like wheel chocks to stop it rolling away whilst being attached to a crane.

[joz]

Ok I admit it; i don't get that at all. The point can't be to stop it rolling away given it's pretty much the lowest point of the track. If the car rolled down there of its own accord would it not manage to get quite a bit of momentum to push those little blocks back quite a lot? Why not put them right next to the car? The only thing I can think of is so guests see them and go 'Oh they're clearly working on it they've got the rails blocked off'

[red dragin]

8 hours ago, joz said:

Ok I admit it; i don't get that at all. The point can't be to stop it rolling away given it's pretty much the lowest point of the track. If the car rolled down there of its own accord would it not manage to get quite a bit of momentum to push those little blocks back quite a lot? Why not put them right next to the car? The only thing I can think of is so guests see them and go 'Oh they're clearly working on it they've got the rails blocked off'

My thinking was that the car was rolled down there and stopped. But maybe doesn't sit quite in the perfect position for lifting without impacting the tunnel. The chocks keep it in the right spot. 

Or could just be an OH&S requirement as it has wheels and doesn't have a hand brake. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Yeah the angle of them suggests the wheels were located on the tower side of them, not the station side of them. So i'm with Red Dragin - i'd say the chocks were there for lifting, and after they removed the car, they just leave them there so they can be used again when the car goes back on the track.

If they wanted something to indicate work was being done, they should put something a lot bigger on the track.

 

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

3 hours ago, AlexB said:

If they wanted something to indicate work was being done, they should put something a lot bigger on the track.

 

Maybe something like this?

 

[Slick]

On 24/09/2018 at 10:44 AM, Gold Coast Amusement Force said:

Ok, getting off topic now.

I think these are the “blockers” @joel was talking about - the yellow things at the end of the tunnel.

 

The lowest point of the ride are roughly where those blocks are - if you wanted to take the entire carriage on/off, you'd need those in place to steady the carriage on the curve.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Slick

[Jdude95]

1 hour ago, Gold Coast Amusement Force said:

Maybe something like this?

 

Well... it would certainly stop the train from rolling away when they put it back on the track.

[Jamberoo Fan]

@AlexB, I didn't miss your point and my comparison wasn't with ski resorts but just with the activity of skiing. Like you said, my argument is based on people wanting to ride them. Seasonality is a factor that affects whether a person would go on a ride even though they wished they could at that point in time. That's why there is a statistical method called seasonal adjustment, which if used in this case would remove the factor of seasonality & would show Thunder River Rapids and Rocky Hollow Log Ride as the most popular attractions in DW's history.

When counting the number of people wanting to ride a ride at a given point in time, to sum up the universality/popularity of a ride, it's probably best to just adjust the statistics to take into account any objective ride factors (like the weather/seasons) that are causing someone to currently not ride the ride. Otherwise, you would never get agreement on what is the ride most people want to ride as there are infinite possibilities of subjective factors influencing people's decisions to ride a ride at any given point in time.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Oh for fucks sake.

and if your aunty had balls she’d be your uncle.

now we’re wishing instead of wanting. Nope. Never walked through a park in freezing weather and said “man I wish I could get soaking wet!”

 

based on your logic, wet and wild is australia’s Most popular park, because everyone wishes it was warm enough to swim.

 

thats not how it works.

now, I daresay, nobody else wants to scroll past another long response from either of us, and clearly nothing either of us says is going to convince the other, so unless we can do this in 50 words or less, let’s just leave it there, shall we?

Edited September 25, 2018 by AlexB

[joz]

Village Roadshow recently cited a heatwave for the poor performance of a water park. 👍🏻

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

Yeah, maybe @Jamberoo Fan and @AlexB can create a thread where you can post Uni work, assignments or your taxes and they will complete them for you seeing they love writing paragraphs.