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Rocky Hollow Log Ride Demolition - Dreamworld


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Just throwing a question out there, in everyone's opinion, what does DW have to do to stick the landing with ST, and would it worth holding off on opening ST for a month or two until other things are done?

 

ST needs to be a 'we're back!' moment, almost a full relaunch for DW. Can you do that with a closed Buzzsaw, train, and the landscaping under ToT's old track still needing doing? Is ST good enough that no one will care, or does what's left of the park need to be absolutely *perfect* to give ST a chance of doing for DW what it needs to do? Would be interested to hear what people think.

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I would love them to hold off and get all this work done first. This corner of the park has been a mess for years and they are slowing fixing it up. But I agree, they should hold off officially opening the ride until December when all of this work will hopefully be done. If the coaster is ready, do a soft open. The parks 40th birthday is on December 15, so I think that should be the offical opening of the coaster. Hopefully the train will also be done by then, so they can have a massive launch event and birthday celebrations. 
 

Officially opening this coaster while there is still work to be done isn’t a great look IMO. Finish this area of the park off, make it look awesome and then they can celebrate all of that. 
 

I am hoping that BS is removed before ST opens, so they can clean up that site too. 

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Yeah 100% agree with all the above, worded it better than I could have. Don't open ST before the rest of the park is ready. Birthday is also a great idea, it's a great date to symbolically relaunch the park. I'm sure this sort of thing would be on their radar too, but it would be a such a massive shame if ST was launched only for the rest of the park to let it down.

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Would make sense as to why they're aiming for the summer school holidays to be their "best summer ever".

- 40th birthday celebrations

- opening of Steel Taipan

- opening of the "new look" Dreamworld Express

- free world-class show (meh)

- WhiteWater World (already) fully operational

I see Dreamworld benefiting greatly with increased guest numbers should the opening of the border come about - in the unlikely event either the NSW/QLD or International borders do eventually open. However, if international borders indeed fail to open, travel bubbles could be set up with the right countries.

Do Dreamworld do adverts interstate? I remember when living in Strathfield, Sydney, I hardly saw any ads for any of the parks up here...

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11 hours ago, joz said:

Just throwing a question out there, in everyone's opinion, what does DW have to do to stick the landing with ST, and would it worth holding off on opening ST for a month or two until other things are done?

One roller coaster - while very nice looking and undoubtedly sure to be a crowd-pleaser - does not significantly change Dreamworld's prospects going forward. At the risk of sounding like a pessimist, it's just a band-aid on a broken bone. They could completely "stick the landing" and have a gorgeously themed area, removed the eyesore that is Buzzsaw, have a flawless launch and glowing reviews/word of mouth but there's still the covid uncertainty that's going against them, the grim spectre of the TRRR incident not to mention the fact the park is at its smallest (with regard to ride offerings) in decades. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Dreamworld to succeed, I've got a lot of nostalgia for the park and I don't subscribe to 'picking sides' with regards to the GC parks but basically what I'm saying is even if everything goes Dreamworld's way, they are still a long way off from being in a good place going forward.

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^yeah I don't think we can specifically hold covid goings-on against them, but I agree with pretty much everything else. 

Prior to covid, the park was seeing a return of patronage numbers, so I would suggest the 'spectre' of TRRR is perhaps a smaller factor for most people - there are still people (clearly, judging by social media comments) that take every opportunity to remind people of the incident (sometimes unreasonably so) but those who returned to the park have for the most part moved on. Many parks around the world have had incidents and deaths that scar the park, but many of them most people don't even remember save for television specials on ABC.

Right now the park's biggest suffering is it's lineup due to years of neglect and a lack of planning and doing the 'bare minimum'.

To answer the original question - i'm already on record that ST is probably not enough to bring me back to the park with everything else that is closed or otherwise hobbled. I will likely not buy tickets to Dreamworld until some of my Sydney friends are allowed back in the state, and i'll probably buy only then because they'll want to go. 

Without that incentive, (which is more about good company than a good offering) I don't think ST is the saviour they need it to be - and realistically they need a whole new world plan to get people excited - perhaps something to fully redevelop the rocky hollow, blue lagoon and BB studios area into a complete land - be it a 'new atlantis' style land of three majors, or a Luna Land style mass-expansion, they need a plan showing how they intend to rebuild whats missing, and they need it done quickly - even if it takes 2-3 years to build, they need to start showing people now what their plan is, because as it stands, it doesn't appear like they've thought much beyond Boxing Day.

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Yep exactly what Dapto is saying, Steel Taipan needs to be the beggining of a new chapter for Dreamworld and they should be advertising and thinking about it as such. Issue is they seem to be thinking this will be the magical fix all for the park and be an acceptable replacement to the countless lost attractions over the past few years.

They need to do a Hong Kong Disneyland and as they prepare the opening for their brand new ride they also announce the next big park expansion plans for the next few years to show they actually have plans past this one ride that while impressive can't hold up an entire park.

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1 hour ago, MrLukeCarroll said:

they prepare the opening for their brand new ride they also announce the next big park expansion plans for the next few years to show they actually have plans past this one ride that while impressive can't hold up an entire park.

 

3 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

they need to start showing people now what their plan is, because as it stands, it doesn't appear like they've thought much beyond Boxing Day.

I don't think they need to say what the plane are, just that they have plans, and that opening day for ST is the parks new 'Day Zero'. If you were to say there'll be another new thrill ride opening in 12 months, that would be fine, but I think ST needs to be allowed to breathe and stand on its own, at least for the first couple of school holidays

 

Apart from that small point, I also agree with what everyone has said, and it's probably that knowledge ST on it's own won't be enough that makes me ask the question of what else they need to do to give it the best chance.

 

As small as the ride lineup will be, I think there MUST be a feeling of completeness. There will be fewer rides, but parks of that size have done fine in the past. I really think a big problem now, is you can see when you walk around how much they're just limping through. Everything is a mess, and you really get the feeling that the park is held together by gaff tape and zipties. I think if they can change that to a feeling of 'It's a small park, but this is the park as we intended' and that's the feeling guests get when they go there, then they've got a chance.

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I think the next announcement will be the ABC World Renovation, it needs a couple more rides and if they can get the Bluey licensing this will refresh this area of the park considerably. This was in the pipeline pre covid and I think was budgeted at about $1,000,000, so within the scope of what they can afford. 

Luna Park Sydney invested about $17,000,000 and that got '9' rides, which is a really productive use of money, this is all less than the cost of the Taipan.

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Yeah I don't think being a smaller park is problem, so long as it feels complete.

They will have:

-Large launch coaster (That is definitely world class)

-Secondary gravity thrill coaster

-2x Family Coasters

-Drop Ride

-Flying Theatre

-2x Thrilling Flats

-Other intermediate flats

-Kids Zone

-Train

-Animals

In itself that's not an unbalanced line up, the main things I think are lacking are:

-A water ride

-A family dark ride

I don't think a flat ride is actually that crucial. Old DW had too many IMO, and plenty of parks make do with just one major flat ride (And the claw is solid)

The coaster is more keeping up with the joneses, and could be ANYTHING, not even a thrill coaster necessarily. Movie World will probably be back up to 6 soon with the Arkham replacement.

As for a water ride,  I like @jozidea of a simple shoot the chutes, but make sure it throws up a big wave and there is a footbridge where non riders can get soaked by the tidal wave. It's a great marketing image, and potential source of funny family photos. I know everyone is gonna say "get a power splash" but I don't think it needs to be that hardcore.

 

As for coasters

-If we are talking family, a spinner, potentially with a drop track would be solid and unique

-If we are talking cheaper thrills, a freespin

-If we are talking big thrills, Hmmmm, gotta be a good RMC right, maybe a smaller Zadra

or if they want to invest, a wing rider or Dive machine (Check out the 7 seat one going in at SFFT)

Im not sure about the Raptors, I still want to see how the newer ones, and the one at SFMM behave themselves for a couple more years.

 

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1 hour ago, joz said:

I don't think they need to say what the plane are, just that they have plans

I disagree. They need to say what the plans are, because they've already tried the "we have a plan, but we can't tell you what it is" approach.

Dreamworld has been touting (and hiding behind) a "new park master plan" since at least 2018 according to searches on the boards. 

Prior to that, the headline was that they had no plan at all:

There's no new major rides or attractions coming to Dreamworld after Sky Voyager | Parkz - Theme Parks

Quote

Dreamworld have gone from having a bad plan – hinged on attractions like simulators and lazy rivers that simply can't captivate the wider public or change Dreamworld's narrative – to having no plan at all. 

In last year's financials, the park gave the following answer:

On 27/08/2020 at 6:14 PM, Tim Dasco said:

when asked about whether they needed more rides to be built quickly to make up for the ride removals. John Responded saying "There is an entire pipeline of new attractions and rides planned for the next phase after the new Coaster."

And then in April this year we had the new dreamworld management in front of the camera talking about new things - but still not saying what they were

Dreamworld General Park Update - April 2021 - Theme Park Discussion - Parkz Forums - Theme Park Community

My point is that they've been saying that they had plans for several years now, and even now, we can categorically say that what they said back then had nothing to do with what they're saying now and we're still no closer nor wiser to what is next in store for the park. Will it be an amazing family water ride or a sloped grassy hill ampitheatre?

Maybe you don't need to reveal your master plan for the next 8 years, but you really need to be showing folks something tangible about what is next because community confidence in the brand and the product is shot.

Even though Atlantis is way behind schedule, and still doesn't show any concrete signs of when it will actually be finished, an entire LAND of attractions with a pretty little model showing how it all comes together has kept this forum abuzz since it was announced, and the whole outlook has been to 'be patient, it's coming'.

Yes, because they didn't do anything about it earlier,  they now need to pick the timing as they should manage the press wave from ST without detracting from what should be the star, but It's time to stop the cloak and dagger, and give people something tangible about the direction the park is headed, and how you intend to go about filling the gaps left by so many of the park's former attractions.

 

14 minutes ago, Gazza said:

In itself that's not an unbalanced line up

Thats a fair point. Serious question though - why does it feel like its missing so much though?

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Again, respectfully disagree. The push needs to be 'Why you should visit NOW', not 'In a few years it'll be good'. The trend of announcing things years in advance needs to die in a fire. If you can't buy a pass to ride it now, why are you telling me about it?

 

Again, the park needs to feel complete now, and endlessly banging on about stuff that hasn't opened doesn't make it feel complete. If you want to have a moment where you relaunch the park and you want to build optimism, say 'We just spent $30million, this is only the start and we're here to say, we'll be opening a new family ride in 2022 and a new thrill ride in 2023' (or whatever). That's all it needs to be for now. At the moment though, ST needs a chance to breathe and be the story of the reborn park. There are times when announcing a long way out makes sense, in my mind this is not one of those times.

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I appreciate your respectful response, and I do agree Taipan needs to breathe..

52 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

they now need to pick the timing as they should manage the press wave from ST without detracting from what should be the star

...but I still think they need to crystallise their plans and show what is to come. Just to explain my thought process a bit further - You say the park needs to feel complete - but what they have currently isn't enough. You said it yourself. 

2 hours ago, joz said:

it's probably that knowledge ST on it's own won't be enough that makes me ask the question of what else they need to do to give it the best chance.

Although I realise you meant tidying up the park rather than any major install, I don't think boarding up half the pathways with red corrugated steel, and placing ride vehicles from defunct attractions outside for photo ops is the solution. I mean we don't even have the typical "excuse our mess while we prepare for our next exciting attraction!" signage on the hoarding.

IMHO - I don't think they should patronise their guests by pretending the park in it's "soon to launch ST" state is in any way complete. The only way it can be complete in that state is if you've reached the RCT2 milestone required to complete the task and so you abandon any thought about the rest of the park you intended on building so you can move on and unlock the next mission.

Pretending it is complete in it's current state is just insulting, again - in my opinion. That is why I feel they'd be better to reveal their next plans. Management have already discussed their next plans in vagaries back in April, and the likely lead time for any such investment. They must by now have something inked out that they could present in a footnote somewhere to show people they aren't resting on their laurels - like they did after Sky Voyager.

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36 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Although I realise you meant tidying up the park rather than any major install, I don't think boarding up half the pathways with red corrugated steel, and placing ride vehicles from defunct attractions outside for photo ops is the solution

I agree whole heatedly, and I don't think either of these things make the park feel complete.

 

I heard something once that always stuck with me, when you talk to a guest, assume that this is the only visit they'll ever make to a theme park in their life. Today is it. That's why a park feeling 'complete' is such a fundamental idea to me. A guest should not have to take the broader context of the park into account, aside where needed like annual maintenance. Parks should feel like they were specifically built for the day. No temporary barriers, no A Frame signage, no SBNO attractions. Today is a stand alone day in a park's history to a guest and that's how it should feel. When I say 'complete', I don't mean 'finished', I mean 'whole'. When you go into the park it should feel like this is the park as it was intended.

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3 hours ago, joz said:

This is pretty much my thoughts right here.

Same here 

3 hours ago, Gazza said:

What if they just did a launch focusing on ST, but also paint it as "The New DW" and re advertise SV, Maybe fully 6 and maybe some sort of other new animal...All stuff that a lot of visitors haven't seen or even be aware of (Particularly SV IMO)

It would be cool to see SV obtain a license for another flyover elsewhere which can also be a good promo addition. Out of the two played so far, the USA version was definitely my favourite 

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14 hours ago, Gazza said:

What if they just did a launch focusing on ST, but also paint it as "The New DW" and re advertise SV, Maybe fully 6 partially 4 and maybe some sort of other new animal...All stuff that a lot of visitors haven't seen or even be aware of (Particularly SV IMO)

FTFY

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