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That'd be the result of CMYK dot printing, hence the aforementioned yellow banding. You can learn about big dots and little dots here. A mix of different film stocks, sunlight and John changing h

I don’t think @red dragin said he supported not running the Perry, was just explaining the reality of the situation. As for other theme parks and how they handle steam engines, well I can’t answe

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To be honest, one of the most positive things that Dreamworld could do right now is bring back the real steam train permanently. Not only is it unique on the Gold Coast, its an opening day attraction and an absolute icon of the park. Run it all day, no timetable, constantly from 10am to 5pm. This would be such an affirmative decision and a huge step in the right direction for the park. Enthusiasts and the general public alike would recognise how good a move this would be. Surely this makes the most sense to the operators of Dreamworld- there are plenty with theme park experience at the place who should know better than the accountants? Surely the good will and the positive vibes this would bring would offset the cost of running?

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17 minutes ago, Jobe said:

To be honest, one of the most positive things that Dreamworld could do right now is bring back the real steam train permanently. Not only is it unique on the Gold Coast, its an opening day attraction and an absolute icon of the park. Run it all day, no timetable, constantly from 10am to 5pm. This would be such an affirmative decision and a huge step in the right direction for the park. Enthusiasts and the general public alike would recognise how good a move this would be. Surely this makes the most sense to the operators of Dreamworld- there are plenty with theme park experience at the place who should know better than the accountants? Surely the good will and the positive vibes this would bring would offset the cost of running?

There's preservation societies out there who are passionate enough about steam trains that they'd maintain and run both the former and present steam trains on-site with very little to no hard labor costs. I'm not a train buff by any stretch, but steam trains and seeing that kind of old school technology in action is badass, and just like Dollywood's steam trains (or Disneyland's) there's a ton of education and community engagement opportunities to be had by having the steam trains run as often as humanly possible at Dreamworld. I'd say the best-case scenario is for the diesel train to relieve the steam trains during say Monday-Wednesday and for the rest of the week the steam trains are running with regular school programs, select tours and other programs that would help to further augment the opex of the steam trains.

It's also worth nothing that it's good for the brand. Just like what Al Mucci did with DWF globally or Marty Ermer did with Dreamworld Corroboree, Dreamworld as a brand has so much soft power to be gained by participating with local and international communities. At the minute I think revenue wins out over brand or culture, hence why these people are gone, their programs are gone (or minimised) and just like the steam trains, the horse-drawn carriage, the glass-blowing, the bakery etc. etc. etc. all of these influencing have been killed over time because with Ardent, sadly, money above all has ruled the roost for a number of decades now.

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The thing is, Dreamworld have to pay a qualified people to operate the steam loco. Plus the specialised maintenance personnel and tools required to maintain it.

You've got several hundred litres of water at 180psi of pressure, sitting at around 190 degrees. The fire (it burns oil) needs to be started several hours before trips start, as well as shut down procedures. The boiler requires independent inspections (yearly I think), these are in the thousands of dollars and there are very few people in the country who do them now. 

You can't train a couple of ride attendants to run that and get a truck mechanic in to change the oil. 

Progress on the Perry continues, but covid has slowed it further. Even without labour costs, these are expensive things to bring back to operational standards. 

Edited by red dragin
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57 minutes ago, red dragin said:

The thing is, Dreamworld have to pay a qualified people to operate the steam loco. Plus the specialised maintenance personnel and tools required to maintain it.

You've got several hundred litres of water at 180psi of pressure, sitting at around 190 degrees. The fire (it burns oil) needs to be started several hours before trips start, as well as shut down procedures. The boiler requires independent inspections (yearly I think), these are in the thousands of dollars and there are very few people in the country who do them now. 

You can't train a couple of ride attendants to run that and get a truck mechanic in to change the oil. 

Progress on the Perry continues, but covid has slowed it further. Even without labour costs, these are expensive things to bring back to operational standards. 

So you support Dreamworld not running the Steam Train? 

How do other theme parks look after these costs and hurdles? 

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1 hour ago, red dragin said:

The thing is, Dreamworld have to pay a qualified people to operate the steam loco. Plus the specialised maintenance personnel and tools required to maintain it.

You've got several hundred litres of water at 180psi of pressure, sitting at around 190 degrees. The fire (it burns oil) needs to be started several hours before trips start, as well as shut down procedures. The boiler requires independent inspections (yearly I think), these are in the thousands of dollars and there are very few people in the country who do them now. 

You can't train a couple of ride attendants to run that and get a truck mechanic in to change the oil. 

Progress on the Perry continues, but covid has slowed it further. Even without labour costs, these are expensive things to bring back to operational standards. 

You also don’t want to pay $100 to get into some attraction that resembles your local westfield and has the ‘train’ to match. 
 

Theme parks are meant to provide unique experiences. And yes they are expensive to provide, which is why they are unique, which is why people want to go. 
 

Or you know, do the bare minimum, slap a sign out front that says Dreamworld and call it a day. 

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15 hours ago, Jobe said:

Run it all day, no timetable, constantly from 10am to 5pm. 

To do that you need to double your qualified engineers so that you've got a qualified operator during lunch breaks. This is why the steam train used to shut down near the middle of the day for an hour. If you can get a volunteer operator crew (which is perfectly allowable and legal - volunteer operators run many steam trains around the country) then that does nothing to your costs, but you're a commercial operator and you should employ engineers - which is why they only have 1.

7 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

As for other theme parks and how they handle steam engines, well I can’t answer that as I don’t have a like for like comparison park….

if you can find another theme park with an operational steam train - that’s located on an island nation, a minimum 6-8 hour flight away for international tourists, has been devoid of said international tourists (and domestic ones) for a large part of 2 years, coupled with having only just begun to recover from killing 4 people through malpractices leading to low consumer confidence and resulting attendance, and then throw in owners who are notoriously tight-assed - then we can probably do a case study on how they can make it work when DW can’t/won’t…

Toot! Toot! Motherf**ker!

image.thumb.png.416adee71ade2e2751e111a46b774dd8.png

Ok, so they haven't killed 4 people recently, but its an operational steam train located on an island nation a minimum 6-8 hour flight away for international tourists, has been devoid of said international tourists (and domestic ones) for a large part of 2 years.... so we're more than halfway there and i'd say that's pretty close!

These guys even charge for a ride! it's not even free! And people pay it!

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7 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

I don’t think @red dragin said he supported not running the Perry, was just explaining the reality of the situation.

As for other theme parks and how they handle steam engines, well I can’t answer that as I don’t have a like for like comparison park….

if you can find another theme park with an operational steam train - that’s located on an island nation, a minimum 6-8 hour flight away for international tourists, has been devoid of said international tourists (and domestic ones) for a large part of 2 years, coupled with having only just begun to recover from killing 4 people through malpractices leading to low consumer confidence and resulting attendance, and then throw in owners who are notoriously tight-assed - then we can probably do a case study on how they can make it work when DW can’t/won’t…

I was in America when Dreamworld killed the steam train, but they killed it all off before the accident even happened I believe. Your argument is moot.

To those saying the park should get volunteers to run the steam train, I disagree. Dreamworld is a multi million, multi National company, they should not be relying on free good will from Volunteers to run an attraction. 
 

Also - https://timbertown.com.au/portfolio-view/timbertown-steam-train-experience/

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13 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

To do that you need to double your qualified engineers so that you've got a qualified operator during lunch breaks. This is why the steam train used to shut down near the middle of the day for an hour. If you can get a volunteer operator crew (which is perfectly allowable and legal - volunteer operators run many steam trains around the country) then that does nothing to your costs, but you're a commercial operator and you should employ engineers - which is why they only have 1.

Toot! Toot! Motherf**ker!

image.thumb.png.416adee71ade2e2751e111a46b774dd8.png

Ok, so they haven't killed 4 people recently, but its an operational steam train located on an island nation a minimum 6-8 hour flight away for international tourists, has been devoid of said international tourists (and domestic ones) for a large part of 2 years.... so we're more than halfway there and i'd say that's pretty close!

These guys even charge for a ride! it's not even free! And people pay it!

I was there last year and I'm pretty sure the steam train wasn't operating. Could have been maintance or COVID reasons but we were not in a steam train for sure.

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1 hour ago, TimmyG said:

To those saying the park should get volunteers to run the steam train, I disagree. Dreamworld is a multi million, multi National company, they should not be relying on free good will from Volunteers to run an attraction. 

But if that multi million, multi national company decides that running a genuine steam train is too expensive, and shuts it down, and a bunch of volunteers put their hand up to keep it going - is that different? 

I don't think the volunteer suggestion has been that Dreamworld should rely on the free good will. Its more the volunteers asking to be permitted to do it because the park has chosen to otherwise not operate it.

1 hour ago, Naazon said:

I was there last year and I'm pretty sure the steam train wasn't operating. Could have been maintance or COVID reasons but we were not in a steam train for sure.

Dreamworld or Ginger Factory?

 

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5 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Actually now you mention it i'm not sure they have a steam train. It sure looks the part though.

From memory, they did but its either retrofitted or its a new one. The train they have "Moreton" was one of the original trains. Just cant remember if its now a diesel or if he was having a nap when we were there.

 

Edit: Even more off topic but their alcoholic drinks are bloody amazing. Highly recommend.

Edited by Naazon
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I don't think they have two. The website image I posted above stated the train was closed for maintenance currently and detailed how they offered tours and such without the train - so there's no relief loco and Moreton is it, I believe.

Looking at pictures now, I think the loco is just a shell for show, and the drive comes from the tender behind it.

The Ginger Factory Review | Brisbane Kids

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42 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

But if that multi million, multi national company decides that running a genuine steam train is too expensive, and shuts it down, and a bunch of volunteers put their hand up to keep it going - is that different? 

I don't think the volunteer suggestion has been that Dreamworld should rely on the free good will. Its more the volunteers asking to be permitted to do it because the park has chosen to otherwise not operate it

 

If a group was knocking at the door, then so be it. I still maintain a park like Dreamworld can afford to run a steam engine. Currumbin has seen a down turn similar to Dreamworld yet it runs their steam train atleast once a month. Currumbin is a not for profit company.

Timbertown as I linked to earlier also runs a steam train of a similar size to Dreamworld, and would see a much smaller number of guests coming through the place.  

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37 minutes ago, TimmyG said:

I still maintain a park like Dreamworld can afford to run a steam engine.

Mate, they needed a loan from the government to build their new rollercoaster.

They specifically purchased a brand new diesel powered "lookalike" - a capital expenditure that would have had a significant cost associated with it - just so that they could stop operating the steam train. 

They might have had enough money to run it, but clearly it was a cost they wished to reduce.

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5 hours ago, TimmyG said:

Your argument is moot.

Just because you think “they should be able to do it” doesn’t just mean they can because  you said so. That’s not reality. My argument isn’t moot, it’s providing reasons why a cost benefit decision has determined the steam engine isn’t viable. 

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2 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

Just because you think “they should be able to do it” doesn’t just mean they can because  you said so. That’s not reality. My argument isn’t moot, it’s providing reasons why a cost benefit decision has determined the steam engine isn’t viable. 

If it was too expensive to run, all the other places would be in a similar situation. It’s not like we are talking about rides in a space rocket to the moon where Dreamworld is the only place to offer rides for the public in an amusement park style location. 
 

Sure a cost benefit analysis says they chose to buy a diesel Replica, but that was all done in a period before TRR where we know now just how great park management was at the place during that time..

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@Brad2912 was right, just explaining the costs and effort involved in operating a steam locomotive. Not defending why they don't run it, or support their decision. Just providing some facts.

The Ginger Factory one is a former cane loco, much like what dreamworld has/had. But it has a diesel engine and gearbox in the tender that actually powers it. 

Edited by red dragin
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1 hour ago, TimmyG said:

If it was too expensive to run, all the other places would be in a similar situation. It’s not like we are talking about rides in a space rocket to the moon where Dreamworld is the only place to offer rides for the public in an amusement park style location. 
 

Sure a cost benefit analysis says they chose to buy a diesel Replica,

The steam engine is not a amusement device, the tractor train is, hence why anyone and everyone can drive the tractor train. The steam engines require boiler certificates and operational inspections from QR (Queensland Railways, I could get this wrong as i aint from Qld) and 3rd party engineers.

The steam engine is also in dire need of some massive TLC. Sure, long term they are cheaper to run than a imposter but they also need to be maintained to a high standard much like any machine. The fact that pre TRR the park never spent money shows. Maintenance fell behind and thus the steam engine started to deteriorate. It's not just the engine you worry about. Running cost for water, oils and general maintenance also need to be conducted.

I think the park going into an agreement with a rail society would be great, rail society operates the train provided the mechanical engineer and boiler inspector and DW pay the bills. I've seen a similar model work very well for another major tourist railway.

 

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  • joz changed the title to Dreamworld's New Look Train

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