zordmaker
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Posts posted by zordmaker
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"Gazetted" doesn't mean "approved" guys. If I say to my wife "I think I might ride THAT coaster" does it mean that I am going to actually get to ride it? "-) There ha sbeen no rezoning (actually, it is not needed.. the site is already zoned 3C Business) and there has been no approvals. All it means is that a bunch of Dept of Planning staffers have prepared an amendment (No. 6) to SEPP59 which recommends that the Wonderland site be used for "employment". It hasn't been considered, approved or passed by any minister or government. Most of the information they are working on is over 5 years old. The Amendment doesnt rezone the land. It simply sets a framework for the subdivision of the land and recommends where things like public roads, sewers, power lines, open space etc etc should be placed if the developer wants to subdivide. Its part of the process a developer must go through to redevelop land. In particular (depending on the plan) up to 30% of the land may return to public hands (in the form of roads & open space which comes under the responsibility of the local council) as happens with all subdivisions. It's VERY early days yet. Nobody (not even ING) have had a chance to accept it yet. For all we know it might be exactly the opposite to what ING wants to do with the land. The Amendment simply attempts to bring the plans into line with those for the land surrounding it. There's no point ING planning to have a road entering the Western corner if the Plan states the road entry is goign to be on the Southern side etc etc. Its all a long and drawn out part of taking someting that is currently 100% private controlled and chopping it up into smaller bits separated by public owned infrastructure. Read the letter from Dept of Planning at the start of this thread. It is quite clear. The newspaper article refers to the amendment gazetted on 4/7/04. I am currently obtaining a copy of the entire amendment to place on the web site also. Then you can all have your $0.02.. and I hope you do. ZordMakerSorry to burst your bubble guys but Wonderland is definately got no chance of being revived now... Check out this story by the Sydney Morning Herald pretty much saying that ING got it re-zoned and they are happy that they can build their industrial estate on the theme park. -
Yes, more or less right.. but ING are going to need a little encouragement to do that. Basically they need someone to either show them a clear business case that the theme park can be just as profitable as their own alternative plans.. or for the Governing bodies controlling the zoning to "place a few bricks" in the way of ING's plans, encouraging them to steer round them rather than smash them to pieces.. ZordmakerI think you're on the ball there Paul. But I don't think anyone understands. I have been reading everything Wonderland in these forums since last year when I joined, and I just don't get that why not expand ING's ventures into the amusment park industry?. -
The Wonderland is freehold, there are no leases that I can determine. ZordMakerWell don't they have to wait for the land lease to expire before they can Re-zone the land as industrial? This is what happened to the Fantasy Glades site in Port Macquarie a couple of years ago. They wanted to build apartments on the site, but only three front blocks of the road which faced the land were able to be built on for apartment purposes because the rest of the land (a very big lot of land might i add) was all zoned for Recreational Facilities and couldn't be Re-zoned till the Land lease Expired. Why should ING be able to con the Blacktown council into cutting the cue line for Re-Zoneing when their are other people that have to wait for the Land Lease to end? Very Sus to me! -
All we need is.. umm... a company with alot of capital to spend.. :-) Keep the pressure on them pollies guys.. ZordMakerYou're a funny "dolt". Anyway, why not have a company, which has a lot of capital to spend, revamp the whole park? -
Letter received from Dept of Planning: http://savewonderland.artelex.com Nothing really surprising here except that it tells us what we already know - Wonderland is stuck in "development hell" and it's up to the pollies to decide it's fate. ZordMaker
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Maybe those "For Sale" letters to the American Theme Park operators actually worked.. and someone's interested in it as a going concern. Or maybe there's some less than reliable information being bandied about on this site. I will say one thing about Wonderland.. the Lights are still on at night.. and Beast can be seen from well down the M4 on the way home. :-) ZordMaker
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Wonder where THAT came from :-) ZordMakerthis is a rumour but its true that part of the land at wonderland must be used for a recreation park, the size of the beach are and the river rampage and bush beats area. it is said that if there will be a recreation park, the beach area and possibly the bush beast may reopen, just a rumour thats all. -
Just an update. Reliable sources in Blacktown Council have indicated that there are at least two potential investors lining up with "recreational use" plans for parts of the Wonderland site. At least one includes keeping some of the rides from the old Wonderland. Early days yes, but things are certainly happening. Keep the ideas rolling along guys. It looks like Council's position may be coming over to our side, and thats a start. ZordMaker
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Not wanting to give too much away at this early stage but the Heritage Order for the Bush Beast has gone in. As for your sighting.. probably more to do with prospective buyers than reopening the ride. ZordMakerI drove past Wonderland today and to my surprise saw the yellow train sitting at the top of the lift. I have heard some rumours from people still at the park that there is something going on but I can't say anymore at this time but all I will say is that Zordy may still have his fantasy come true. "The Bus is now leaving for High Lift Branch, Victoria" -
Although you say the park would not "start" with all of them, it would certainly need to start with a single plan and not deviate from it. The reality is that most parks are historical and things are put where they go because of a thousand different engineering reasons mainly other things being in the way, easements, underground services, clearances, heritage orders on some buildings, preservation orders on trees etc etc etc. But it's a great demonstration of just what is possible in a (relatively) small space. The space you mention is about the same size as that planned for "Mini Wonderland". But my only concern would be that there are alot of rides and not much else.. pity if you're not a Rides person. Needs to be plenty of room for eating, after all that's what makes the cash registers tingle, not rides. I wonder if you could add up an approximate cost of establishing all these rides based on a totally greenfield site?... ZordMakerI have added a couple more stages to my park design, the size now sits at 200m x 300m (How much would this cost in sydney). It also has 47 attractions, but of course the park would not start of with all of them. : -
Sydney? Im guessing if so then it is probably ONeill's AdventureLand at Prestons (Camden Valley Way) that you're thinking about. No there's not much left. The slides are still there I think. I think the land was sold as recently as earlier this year. O'Neills were a carnie firm that have been around for yonkers. The land was mainly used to store the carnie rides. ZordMaker.A few years ago I visited a park in Sydney called 'Adventure Land - Carnival on the farm'. -
Nothing. Open space. Bomb testing. I'm sure something will come up someday though, possibly more sports grounds etc. Extremely unlikely ever to leave public ownership. Telstra sold it back to the Federal Govt in 1999. SWRFM appplied to get the old Transmitter building for it's studio before it was demolished but we were too late, it got trashed and is now gone along with all the antennas, etc. ZordMakerZordmaker, sorry to get off the topic..but do you know what is the future use is with the OTC site?...apart from someone using it to test his home made bombs
Cheers
Sean -
That may be true, yes. It is zoned open space and may be able to be used for such a purpose. However for the moment, the main aim was to make it so that certain "hard to move" assets at Wonderland could remain where they are rather than starting out on a greenfield site from scratch which would be very costly. Still, in the event that WL finally does go under the Bulldozer then yes it would be a good place to start. However a better place (more viable) would be Homebush Bay, IMO. It would be a hard fight to convince Dept of Planning to allow any sort of development on the OTC site, which is part of the Western Sydney green belt. But then again, they built the Olympic Softball Stadium across the road, didnt they. There is a large council held land parcel almost next to WL, on the other side of the M4 (Dog Pound). Apart from some old sheds there's just about jack all there. There's a chance that if convinced BCC might be able to "swap" that land for the Mini Wonderland site. Need to find somewhere for the dogs, though:-) As you can see it would be virtually the same as far as ING was concerned. Lots of possibilities, and time is on our side. ZordMaker.Zordmaker, The old OTC site would be a great place to relocate Wonderland. Hwy frontage, Close to the Orbital, Lots of Space... -
Definitely cant remember that one, and I worked in Rooty Hill from 1987 to 1989. ZordMakerOn another note, does anyone remember all the talk in the late 80's regarding the name change of Rooty Hill to Wonderland?... Was this the work of BCC, or just a media stunt? -
I would call that fairly average for such a ride. Once a day would be too much.Well considering that I spent usually 3 or 4 days out of 5 operating that ride or over a year I consider myself an expert. Now I know you are going to say that I was just an operator and didn't know anything but I spoke to the maintenance guys almost daily and I saw that ride breakdown at least twice a week on average.
"Structural Problems" can mean anything. Its all an opinion. It happens regularly in an industry where people are confronted with things they are not familiar with. The Railways are the same. One man's "Structural Problem" is another's "Standard Practice". I think you'll find it was just a difference of opinion between one or two inspecting engineers.There has been no comment about structural problems because that was the first time I have brought it up. I think it was just before Christmas when the problem was found and the ride was closed for several days while the structural problem was investigated and an appropriate solution was made, whether or not this was a long term solution or not remains to be seen.
Standard Practice at many (particularly European) Parks, and of course any special event. Sydneysiders are used to it, after being introduced to the idea at the Olympics. Simple. Want a park, come early. Rock up late, catch the bus.Do you think that is a viable solution that would be appreciated by the customers? How would you feel if you pulled up at the gates and were told to go 5kms down the road and park and then wait 15-30 minutes for a shuttle bus? The public transport that serviced Wonderland was poor and I don't see Busways getting any better. But if you want to hire a bus just give me a buzz and I will be more than willing to lend my services, for the right price of course.
I guess because it is unique, thats why. I guess they might get away with demolishing it if only to build another in it's place. ZordMaker.Bush Beast with a heritage order on it? Why? So the council can waste a heap of money each year keeping in a reasonable state, another waste of taxpayer’s money as far as I can tell. -
BB may end up with a Heritage order on it. That's the only problem there. There has been talk of it in BCC circles lately. A few more people have become involved as well through BCC, it seems Im not the only one with the plan. There is likely to be a meeting held. More as it happens. ZordMakerBush Beast: Get ride of it and install a ride which uses its footprint better. Don't worry about spending half a mil to re-track, but buy something new and appealing. -
Only overflow parking outside. Enough on site parking will be provided for regular school holidays. Extra parking will be arranged for Public Holidays, when available in surrounding areas. A Shuttle bus service will also run. Hmm.. know anyone who rents out buses?..Ones that are Wonderful?...:-)So what is going to happen during the busiest times of year for any amusement park (school holiday time)? The businesses around there aren't going to close down during these times to allow for visitors to park in their carparks. The council and probably the state government would never allow a situation like that to happen, so you had better come up with a solution. By the way how did winning the $23 million go?
Well, nice of you to give me that information, but I think I'll take an expert opinion once one is offered. The Auction process should be an ideal opportunity to inspect the goods and have a condition report prepared. Basically as far as I am concerned the Demon was and still is in "operating condition". There has been no mention anywhere of track or structural problems. Keep the thread going guys.. ZordMakerWhat was wrong with Demon? The question should be what's not wrong. It was mechanically on its last legs, the track was in very poor condition and I don't mean that it needed a lick of paint there were structural problems as well. Constant problems with the carriages. Besides that not much was wrong with Demon. -
Lets put it this way: if nobody wants it then why not use it somewhere. But I wouldnt bid for it. Your kind of right though I guess. Why spend $1.2m relocating Demon when you can probably get something really good "off the shelf" for $5m, and then sell Demon to some other park that has nothing at all and is just looking for something to fill in some space. Its not the kind of ride you come back for again and again, granted. Going backwards is a real hurl turner for some.. including me. I prefer to see where Im going. ZordMaker.Id rather use the space for an Invertigo and as people have said, Demon has had its day and its not a great ride. In regards to saftey issues with coasters above public areas, well what about Corkscrew? Or any other of the many coasters around that run above paths. If you really wanted to be safe then nets would be the go and an absolute no item policy. -
You've got a different opinion? Lest hear it. Whats _really_ wrong with Demon, then? ZordMakerOK mate. :cool: -
Who said it was stuffed? Bush Beast, now THAT's stuffed. (Will take around $1m to bring back to standard I think) Needs new track, complete paint of entire structure & replace splintered timbers, dissassemble & rebuild lift, Refurbish station. Demon is fine. New coat of paint, new carriage wheels and new brakes and it'll be like a brand new coaster. ZordMaker.Reassemble Demon 10 years later? That would make it about 30, give or take. It's stuffed now, you've got to be joking... I love your passion though old son! Go brother! -
I woudnt keep any of the old Public facilities myself, they're all in poor condition and waaaay life expired. Redeveloping MWL would mean new services (eg sewer) to the site entering in different locations to the current ones. People demand far better personal facilities from Public Spaces nowadays. The facilities would need to be "first class", spacious and clean to win customers and keep 'em coming back. ZordMakermaybe some of the pathways and existing shops, food outlets and toilets. -
The Beach could use a "real" Swimming pool to make it more viable, i.e. a 50m Olympic size lap pool, possibly heated to extend the season (not a covered all year rounder though). Also the throughput capacity for the Water Tube needs serious treatment. This ride is always packed and the waiting times of over an hour are unacceptable in MWL. With these added and an entrance fee below $10 per head, the Beach would be viable in it's own right. But out the rides next to it, bump up the price to $15 and add some good eateries, and you've just made a "few hours" experience into a "whole day" one which will draw more customers and keep them there to buy Lunch and Dinner. I only suggested keeping Demon because of the obviously low cost when compared with buying a brand new coaster, and I certainly wouldn't bid for it against someone else who wanted it bad for their own park. But I do agree, it would be more viable to buy at least _one_ brand new, very large and "wow factor" ride for MWL to kick it off and give it status. Demon could be dismantled and stashed for a few years, then (eventually) reassembled 10 years later, repainted and called something else. 80% of the visiting Public (except of course for ride junkies like you find here) would not be able to tell the difference:-) Of course if it were my choice, that would be a copy of PKI's "Son of Beast"... :-) ZordmakerI think your Demon exclusion is a wise choice. Would be interesting to see an expansion of the The Beach area as this is one of the few areas I feel could be viable This could be fun. Mind you though I am only interested in this for the sake of alleviating my boredom and am not thinking it could become a reality (sorry zordy!) -
I might add that space for Back of House and Admin is not that important in the calculations. That can easily be accomodated in some of the "To Let" Industrial units next door :-) ZordMakerAs for administration, I had already considered that, and it would be on a 2nd and possibly 3rd floor above the entrance building. Staff room would also be in the admin building and a smaller one in the building beside G2. -
Zordy do you think that $23 million would be enough to resurrect Wonderland in another form? I think that that would leave you about $100 million short by my calculations. QUOTE] All I need is a few Million as security against the massive bank loan that would be needed to resurrect Wonderland. This is Business we're talking here remember. I'm not about buying the land back off ING, merely creating something that will yield them a similar rent per hectare as their current plans. And yes, a smaller park packed with the latest rides would definitely suit that quota. I should have also said that in "Mini Wonderland" it is likely that a "sideshow alley" space would be set aside for semi permanent portable rides (such as the Claw, Rainbow, YoYo etc etc) and deals done with owners to "park" the rides there when they weren't in use elsewhere. Just another idea, thats all. As for Staff amenities, toilets etc, it has been mentioned here that it is inappropriate to place public spaces below roller coasters for safety reasons (which is true). But nobody said anything about using the space for other "back of house" services. You could fit a veritable feast of ramshackle buildings under and around Bush Beast for the purpose. I wouldnt be advocating using neighbouring Industrial sites for facilities.. but there is the possibility that weekend "overflow parking" could be arranged with a few neighbours who otherwise find their front parking lots empty at those times. Basically a small parking lot for WL itself (less than 500 cars) and the rest of 'em either come by shuttle bus, or park in the street and walk. Lazy bastards, they need more excercise anyway. Keep up the good ideas guys. I'm going to get around to getting some _scale_ plans of the old Wonderland (or at least aerial photos). That should make this all a bit easier. p.s. the most difficult thing to do in all this is to estimate "real" expected attendance numbers using facts (from overseas or from the Gold Coast) as a guide. Certainly addigna few more "brand new" latest rides to the miniaturised park would make it far more viable than just having a "wet and wild" local swimming hole. Remember - no Themes, no Shows, no Superheroes, just Maximum Fun and Thrills for minimum Dollars. Basically a Summer showcase of rides. Thats the idea behind MWL. ZordMaker
Cheers
Sean
mini wonderland update
in Theme Park Discussion
Posted
Further to all that blahdebluhh, here is the actual document: http://www.cms.dpws.nsw.gov.au/NR/rdonlyre...f+2004.indd.pdf Decide for yourself what it means. Basically for the less educated it says this: "Wonderland is now to be considered as part of SEPP59". DUUHH. Actually that's the first positive move we've had since the old Wonderland closed. Says nothing about how it will be used. ZordMaker