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  2. Brad2912

    Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

    Well according to the report today, the senior Ride op said he noticed the drop in water levels so pressed the slow stop button prior to the incident to stop the conveyor, but nothing happened. He went and unloaded the next group, still nothing had happened, so he went and pressed it more times.. that was when the second raft continued to move down the conveyor
  3. I would probably just think it would just push the raft, but would probably slow the lift speed just in case.
  4. ^This is abso-flogging-lutely bang on. Couldn't have said it better. So how do you come to the determination that he was responsible for the death of his child, because he performed CPR inappropriately? Was there a coroner's report that stated this? Is there any shred of evidence you can point to online that verifies this? Yes, you said you can kill if done incorrectly - and my counter point is that you can't kill someone who is already dead. It is statements like yours, that scare people into some misconception that they might hurt the casualty if they do something wrong, and humans being humans, the natural response to that is 'not to to anything'. Which is how people die. Idle hands standing by watching someone who needs help, but not doing anything to help them - THAT is how people die. So stop perpetuating a statement that serves only to scare more people away from rendering help to someone in need. If i'm unconscious and not breathing, I don't GAF if you break my ribs, puncture my lungs and perforate my stomach (all possible injuries sustained from vigorous CPR), the fact will be that I am alive, and regardless of whether i'm hospitalised, suffer through surgeries, have to carry a piss-bag with me everywhere I go for the rest of my life, these are all more desirable than the alternative of death... You're missing the point. For a trained responder located near the front entrance to get to say... vintage cars, how long do you think it would take them? So let's assume someone is knocked down and run over by the car, or perhaps the engine explodes and knocks someone out... You've got 10 minutes until they're clinically brain dead, but damage occurs from 3 minutes. For every minute, survivability reduces by 10%. If there is nobody else there who is trained, should we all stand around and wait for the nurse to run through the park (which, due to Thunder river's closure, means a stupid roundabout way up stairs and down ramps)??? Not to mention first responders don't generally run in these situations either... so how long would it take you to reach vintage cars from the main gate at a brisk walk, assuming that you are not impeded by train or guest? Provided it is safe to do so (Danger being the first step in DRSABCD) if the person is not responsive, and not breathing, doing ANYTHING to help is better than nothing...
  5. Of course nobody on scene told the father he just killed his child. (and no it wasn't a drowning) For the record Alex I'm not telling people to not perform CPR because you might kill them. (All I said was you can kill them if done incorrectly) You're missing the point. DW have staff that are fully trained to preform CPR, but you want somebody who has never performed it before to preform it on a child inside a pressure cooker for the first time. As i said the ride operator who has now shut down is not the person you want performing CPR.
  6. Today
  7. webslave

    Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

    Also, we are talking about panicked operators here. We haven't yet ascertained at which point they even became panicked as far as I have read. Was the dropping of the water level (when it was even noticed) enough to create panic? Probably not, given it had already happened a few times that day. Was a raft approaching another raft near the conveyor even a cause for concern much less panic? From what I'm reading we haven't even established that yet - all the more so when you consider that the police tried this a number of times and couldn't recreate the problem. It's well and good to talk about E-stop buttons and how effective they are, but what if we eventually establish that none of the staff (even with a full training package) could foresee that one raft coming into contact with another was going to cause a roll-over until said roll-over began, by which time even a two-second e-stop would have been too late? By that stage it wouldn't matter if the first aid kit was missing band-aids or "incomplete" and it wouldn't have mattered if the staff weren't first aid ninjas.
  8. Coastguard or VMR? It doesn't matter either way, just curious which set of guidelines you work under. YOU CAN'T KILL SOMEONE WHO IS ALREADY DEAD. If a person requires CPR, this means that they are unconscious, and they are either not breathing, or not breathing effectively (uncontrollable gasping for example). If you do nothing, they will die. If you attempt something, you might save them. You might not. But you can't kill them twice... so it is better to try. In Australia, the authority on the appropriate CPR to administer, which is what dictates the course content to ASQA, and therefore what dictates what is taught within first aid and CPR courses by RTOs nationwide, is the Australian Resuscitation Council, and its pretty hard to bullshit bullshit bullshit your way out of a banner quote on the front page of their website. Skeet - you and I disagree on things from time to time. I have a lot of respect for your background, even though I don't know you, and only pick up on the 'vibe' of things you're involved in. I've gone toe to toe with you on many subjects and i've lost some of those and been proven wrong, at which point i'll gladly admit it - but you are never going to convince me on this point. You can't kill someone if you perform CPR on them incorrectly - because without your intervention they will certainly die. With CPR, even professional, qualified, textbook CPR, your chances of survival only increase from 0% to roughly 3-5%. If this father you talk of was told he 'killed his baby' by attempting CPR, whomever did so deserves to be drowned. Clearly that baby was unconscious and not breathing. Without defibrillation, that baby had, at best, a 5% chance of survival (defib would have been up to 70%). TO tell this father that in his efforts to help, he caused that childs death is disgusting. Even if he'd done it properly, there's no way of saying the child could have survived.
  9. @AlexB said you can't kill someone. Is a baby someone @Brad2912?
  10. Brad2912

    Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

    No, I’m saying it is more possible to cause harm performing CPR on a baby than it is on an adult. It Would be near impossible to cause “more” damage to an adult by stuffing up cpr than not trying at all, whereas doing cpr on a baby/young infant you need to make sure you know what you are doing,
  11. @Brad2912 I don't thing people are getting my point. You have a person who is already panicked and under extreme pressure fumbling task his has done for years and you want to add the extra pressure of which CPR technique to use when he can’t even remember which button to push. Are you saying if a baby at DW requires CPR a First Aid trained ride attendant won't preform CPR because it's a baby?
  12. Brad2912

    Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

    Much of the third day of the inquest into their deaths, being held at Southport Courthouse, considered the timing and sequence which level-three ride operator Peter Nemeth pushed the eight-second emergency stop button after seeing the water level had dropped on the ride. The inquest heard Mr Nemeth saw the water level was low and went into the control room to press the slow-stop button in an attempt to stop the conveyor belt on the ride, but it did not work. He returned to help unload passengers from a raft before going back and hitting the button about three more times when he saw two rafts were about to collide, moments before the fatal accident, as the conveyor belt had not stopped. Under cross-examination by barrister Craig Eberhardt, for Ardent Group safety manager Angus Hutchings, Mr Nemeth conceded he did not press the two-second emergency stop button at the unload end of the ride, despite being the senior person in charge on the day of the fatal disaster. He asked if there was a reason the ride operator didn’t race over and press the button. “If I had a bit more time I could have done that I think... you’re speculating how many seconds... I don’t know if I could have done that,” Mr Nemeth replied. Mr Nemeth later said there would not have been enough time to run the 10m to the unload area and press the button. “You didn’t even try did you?” Mr Eberhardt asked. “No, I didn’t try.”
  13. Gold Coast Amusement Force

    The Off Topic Topic

    The sun newspaper article
  14. Brad2912

    Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

    Little different with a baby as if your compressions are done with your palm instead of using 2 fingers you can easily break their ribs which can cause severe internal injuries, or if you blow into their lungs rather than puff you can overinflated & burst their lungs.
  15. They're talking about the second button on top of the hill. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I’ve been volunteer for marine rescue since I was 18 and in the last 6 years a first responder for marine rescue trained by the Queensland ambulance & QUT. I went to a job 4 years ago where a father’s CPR killed his baby while he performed CPR.
  16. red dragin

    Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

    My wife was taught at a first aid course "as far as the patient is concerned, having broken ribs is still better than being dead".
  17. https://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/askdoctor.html When performing CPR, how do I know if it's working? You can tell if the chest rises with ventilation. It is hard to determine if the chest compression results in a pulse. Do the best you can and don't stop. It's better to perform CPR imperfectly than not at all. Can I kill someone if I do CPR incorrectly? No. Remember the person in cardiac arrest is already clinically dead. CPR can only help. Even if it's not done "letter perfect" it will probably provide some benefit to the victim. Reading ahead, these guys still recommend the Heimlich maneuver for choking - so perhaps another resource? https://resus.org.au/ The Australian Resuscitation Council. I'm not going to quote anything here because a screenshot of the front page of their website will do far better... Whilst the ARC, along with the NZRC who together form ANZCOR do stipulate that care should be taken not to over inflate the person's lungs, they all say the same thing - if a person is in need of CPR, they are already in mortal danger, and restoring breathing and circulation is the primary concern over any other risk of injury. As a minimum, you'd need advanced resuscitation or occupational first aid to administer oxygen. Your run of the mill "senior first aid" (also referred to as Apply first aid or Provide First Aid depending on how recently you did your course) course won't qualify you to do this. Oxygen is classed as a drug. The staff on duty in the first aid room should carry an occupational (or higher) first aid qualification, enabling them to administer oxygen. The park should have at least one person with this qualification or higher simply because they have a first aid room, and have a large number of people on site. Having the bottles there (if true) is likely based on a risk assessment - the experience on that ride can literally take your breath away, and it seems smart to have it positioned there if that is the case. I've never seen it myself personally though so i await some sort of photograph or similar...
  18. Brad2912

    Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

    Whilst I wouldn’t expect all ride ops to be first aid trained, I would have made an assumption that senior ride ops operating water based rides would have CPR training as a minimum, and that’s a fair expectation imo... Ok this is just strange now... 3pm news on the radio just said that the senior operator has now admitted he didn’t even hit the emergency stop button “because there wasn’t time”...
  19. Brad2912

    Theme Park Maintenance Schedules 2018

    Good question, maintnace sounds like half-assed maintenance so yes, that’s likely what’s happening...
  20. It’s not for them to administer . The nurse or security would be called. Note most people have fire training.
  21. Is that a new thing? @joel
  22. Don’t know if anyone has seen, but the giant drop has oxygen bottles and mask. Now how many of the staff who operate GD know how to use them?
  23. Unless the person administrating CPR blows the patient’s lungs out, which I have seen happen.
  24. Jessicajealousy

    Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

    Don't disagree with you. Don't plan on being in this job for much longer, so not of huge concern to me. Our company owns the building (6 floors) and there are only 8 staff in our office anyway.
  25. That actually scares me a little bit.... in my office, our chief, fire and floor wardens cannot also be first aiders. In a fire\evac situation, our first aiders establish a triage point outside, whilst the wardens are clearing the building. If our wardens did first aid, there'd be a huge delay getting treatment to injured persons. Regardless, they'd be better than someone who has done no training at all. Any aid is better than none... but that doesn't mean every ride op, loader, grouper, greeter, loose items inspector and fairy floss vendor should be trained in first aid. Perhaps it should be a requirement of operators to reach a certain level... and it should then be practiced in drills regularly - at least every 3 months on a small scale, and annually involving a large scale response (*prior to park opening hours of course)
  26. Let's be honest here. Somebody who completes a basic First Aid course 4 year ago and never puts it into practice is going to be shit at it in an emergency.
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