zordmaker
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Posts posted by zordmaker
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Is that the purpose of Roller coasters then? To ride them once and then move on? Im sure some on this board will disagree.. I've seen claims of people riding Wonderlands attractions hundreds of times.. and they never seemed to get tired of them. ZordMakerPersonally Id rather just see a small, dense park somewhre else, and just wave goodbye to the Wonderland that exists now, we have all ridden the rides and let go and its not worth the effort to make some park with just a few rides that are many years old. Sydney would rather something new. -
Yeah but it COST as much, in fact it probably cost MUCH more. It was doomed from the first day. Wrong attraction in the wrong place. Now, if they had put it alongside Wonderland... Hmm.. ZordMakerFox was too expensive for visitors and had bugger all attractions. It was small, and had only limited appeal. Thats not at all like a Gold Coast park. -
Just to divert away from the whole Wonderland Lite idea, Fox blew $170m on the Backlot at Moore Park before it closed 3 years later. Imagine how far that would have gone at Wonderland. Now we're talking. I agree with you guys on one thing and that is that Wonderland WOULD be viable if it had some serious money thrown at it - and Im talking at least $50m in 5 years. Nowadays you've gotta be the biggest and best or just butt out, which is basically ehat Wonderland did anyway. But that doesnt stop the Wonderland Lite idea from still being viable as something completely different. Im talking Council Swimming Pool with a Rooler coaster attached here, entry charge around $15 bucks for a day. Now I can tell you at that price and with what's on offer, that joint would be packed with westies every day of summer until the cows come home. With enough bums on seats it would be viable. You will notice I have only kept the high throughput rides. If it cant handle at least 700 bums an hour it's a waste of space thats what I say. Keep it up guys, I am going to have to prove you're wrong... And when I do, you're all banned :-) (whoops that's 3 bums I just lost.. sorry guys you can come in after all..) ZordMakerMatt Shirvington the lunch box
Also, I don't know why you guys think a Gold Coast sized park couldn't survive in Sydney. -
You're looking on the wrong scale. You're comparing it to Paramounts Kings Island. You may even be comparing it to Dreamworld, I don't know. I'm comparing it to things like Luna Park, and the local Council owned swimming pools around here. Basically Sydney's got absolutely nothing and when you've got nothing, even a little suddenly becomes "amazing" especially if you can access it easily. Get the idea of reopening Wonderland right out of your minds. Thats not what Im about. This thing is more about using some assets to create a completely new and different experience, a place where locals can just hang out and have a good time. Not a place where the world's tourists are going to flock to see.With this 'Mini Wonderland' park you're essentially offering the public an attraction which has a lot LESS to offer than Wonderland did.
Like LP, Mini Wonderland will not work without a partner. I'm guessing a large format homemaker's centre or bulky goods retail or the like. Right up ING's alley.Zordmaker - you compared 'Mini Wonderland' to Luna Park. Keep in mind that Luna Park has had to create extensive new function, theatre and office accomodation facilities to make the amusement park aspect of the site fiancially viable (mostly due to the small size of the park and its apparent inability to compete with the big parks). 'Mini Wonderland' would be unable to do this.
Thats why Mini Wonderland wouldn't be a Theme park. It would be a fun park for locals - not a theme park for visitors. Just think of what's just down the road (Eastern Creek Raceway and the Dragstrip) and you'll get my general idea. Throngs of young teens and twentysomethings with fast cars, cash and with nothing better to do on a Saturday Night or Sunday Arvo. That's "Mini Wonderland"'s target market. Im sure you'll agree that couldnt be more different to the old Wonderland. I guess you just have to be a "Westie" to understand just how huge the youth market is out here and how poorly it is served by current means. The old Wonderland never targetted this potentially huge market (even taking into account the Saturday Night special). hey Im a "young Westie" and I didnt even know about it until two weeks before it closed. I would class that as typical. It was right on our doorstep and nobody even knew it was there, meanwhile Sunway were too busy marketing to overseas tourists who weren't coming anyway.a decent theme park in the future seem even more limited. People don't usually consider the details of why a park failed but simply generalise by saying - "Theme parks don't work in Sydney" -
Keep going guys. Trying to convince me that something wont work is like throwing petrol on the fire... ZordMakerNot when you Rollercoaster buffs take your cameras on the ride. Wouldn't want one of those things knocking me out! The MiniWonderland concept is very good. However, financially it would never work. -
and whats this ripoff of KLF's "the White Room"??? ZordMaker
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9000 during construction, 3000 indirectly upon completion. The closer permnanent figure for the actual Wonderland site, considering the bulky goods style facility likely to be put there, would be closer to 300 or 500 employees "on site" and perhaps another couple of hundred in trucks. Now thats not much more than Wonderland was doing, is it. A very detailed study would be needed. Blacktown Council is now standing up and taking notice of our plight, I might add. More news later. ZordMakerI find it funny how the number of jobs for the industrial park keeps going up and down sometimes its 9,000 sometimes its 3,000...Oh wait a minute its maybe 7,000? Cheers Sean -
The bit that matters would abutt the motorways, almost right up to the edge - very visible. ALl the industrial stuff would be behind that. Otherwise fair comment I suppose.I personally couldn’t think of a more unpleasant location for a theme park, fun park, whatever you want it to be.
Remember.. planning to open the park on Weekends only.. Industrial sites are deserts on the weekend. Why own land for customer parking when they can park on miles of Public streets for free?? While on the subject of site there is one other thing I agree with you on.. the Wonderland site stinks. Right nextdoor to Eastern Creek Tip. At times if the rides didn't make me sick, the stench did. :-)The most important thing that is missing is the parking? Where are people going to put there cars?
I guess for all the fatso internet junkies out there who never venture outside.. they may have to find some other fashions. But for the bulk of us who still take the time to keep reasonably fit and havent got a self esteem hangup.. Lycra is definitely back. :-)No I’m definitely defiantly from the Fab Five but one things for sure Zordy, the only way you would get me in lycra in any form is to pay me a bucket load of money and put me in a bike race. Hopefully lycra will never make a come back in my life time and I feel for those future generations who may have to endure it. One things for sure though, I will be teaching my kids from a very young age to forget the monster under the bed and worry about the horror that is lycra. -
Yeah, well .. as can be seen.. they may have to modify that statement in 12 months to say: "Overwealming support for an integrated development consisting of a mix of industrial, commercial and tourism applications"... :-) Lets just hope that by that time, some of the skeletal remains of the old Wonderland still remain, adn there is someone waiting in the wings to jump at the chance to revitalise them. ZordMakerZordMaker, I totally agree with you, it seems like that they believe the community is behind them 100% if you look at Q&A for future plans for Wonderland Sydney on your web site quote: "but we are keen to be good members of the community in the Greater West. The feeling we have, though, is overwhelming support." :mad: My question is from who...the Local Council? I would not consider this as "overwhelming support".... overwhelming support!....yeah right! what propaganda! Good Work ZordMaker!!
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Oh bu the way, read Paul Toussaint's letter yourself at http://savewonderland.artelex.com ZordMaker
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For the present I feel it's more appropriate to focus the issue on what's missing.. Wonderland. When Government (particularly the Tourism Ministry) finally realise just how stupid they've been and what has been lost, then it will be time to start talking about new sites. The whole thing should hopefully focus the need on having a theme park in Sydney - no matter where it ends up. Politics is always a give and take thing. If they learn they can give in one place they will take in another. There is a huge community backlash about Public land being sold off at the moment. A Theme Park lease would be a good solution for some of those locations which are currently experiencing alot of community resistance to sell offs. I agree.. With Theme parks, Big is better. But for Wonderland I wasn't looking at a theme park, I was looking at more of a Luna Park of the west - a concept which does have possibilities. ZordMakerZordmaker - it would be great to see you put some of your initiative towards a whole new Sydney theme park rather than the leftover remnants of a defunct park. There is obviously a demand out there. We need prospective park operators to realise that one of the main reasons these types of ventures have failed in Sydney in the past is because they simply haven't been good enough. Build something big and decent and I'm sure you'd find over 4 million Sydney residents and loads of tourists would lap it up -
As far as I see it, it would be a case of proving that both the park and ING's plans could co exist harmoniously, and that a combination of both would be more profitable than just one on it's own. I don't think I ever entertained the idea of another theme park. I strategically used the term "fun park" rather than theme park. The emphasis would be on large scale, quality rides mixed with attractions that would make most use of the space and draw regular crowds to the site. That would almost certainly be commercial in nature, i.e. teaming it up with say, a large homemakers' shopping centre, Bulky retail goods, Bargain Bazaar or other similar development. The trick is to get as many people as possible in Sydney to think of reasons for going there, and taking their cash:-) As for the Blue shorts.. Hey, I'm dressed for the Beach here, remember. And yes, Lycra is back in fashion. Where have YOU been. ZordMakerZordy, it would be very hard to convince anyone that a small theme park will have a greater benefit in terms of jobs or economic factors. I have said it before and I will say it again, it doesn't make financial sense to have a small theme park employing how many people, 50? 75? Compare this to a business that would be on the site which would employee probably twice as many people. Now tell me which option has the greatest benefit in terms of jobs, economic and community benefit. Face it its gone and there is nothing that can be done now to change that. Oh yeah, one more thing, when did blue lycra shorts come back into fashion? "The Bus is now leaving for Goneaway National Park, Queensland" -
I received a letter from Mr Toussaint this morning, ING Industrial Fund CEO. Basically it states that yes, they want to turn the site into an industrial park. However it also says that if anyone out there would like to "demonstrate a compelling business case" regarding the concept of retaining part of the park in operation then they would be in a position to listen. The words go something like: "it would need to be sufficiently developed to demonstrate equivalent or better jobs, community benefit, economic development and financial reurns to our proposal"... So.. any budding young Entrepreneurs out there? Now's the time. This could be the cnace we've been waiting for. :-) ZordMaker
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Yes, but unlike all those other parks, it was in Sydney. Now we need a Passport to ride the nearest thing to Grizzly. ZordMaker (grizzles and grumbles) http://savewonderland.artelex.comI think the whole Wonderland closing was summed up best on coasterbuzz, where the member said something along the lines of "Yeah, its got a boomerang, a clone of grizzly and a giant drop, so no big loss really" -
An observation: The Makers' official maximum throughput for any ride rarely includes the time needed for safety checks. For ecample on a coaster, the timne needed for a staff member to manually check that all the bars are locked in place bnefore starting the ride. This by far is the biggest time loser on most rides and effectively halves the theoretical throughput. The time is further eroded by other safety related procedures that may be in place and local to the park concerned. The makers when they quote these figures assume the absolute maximum ratings only, i.e. the rating should be possible if every rider was trained in exactly how to board and disembark from the ride, no baggage whatsoever and (of course) each rider conducts their own safety check. Another time waster on coasters is the time needed to bring the train back into the station or realign it if it does not stop in exactly the right place at the end of the ride.With most brakes having only a "on" and "off" setting, this depends on the operator, the age and condition of the ride and the weather. I have been on (ex)Wonderland's Demon in wet weather (circa '97) and seen it completely overshoot the platform on return due to wet brake shoes. ZordMakerJust a couple of queries... *Furthermore in using your 'Actual' values... is this your estimates? Were your estimates also used for Cedar Point? -
Now's your chance. I hear Sydney, a large city of 4 million, has none. What a fantastic business opportunity. ZordMakerLOL I can't remember how many of those bags broke because of the weight of all those brochures... That was back in the days when I of course too was going to open my own theme park :-p -
99.9MHz, yeah, the same station that used Space Probe for their transmitter in the late '90s. ZordMakerKick A** ZordMaker, Excellent Work
SWR FM???
Cheers
Sean -
Makes you kinda glad the Aussie dollar is on the dive again doesnt it..I would personally be very interested in finding out just how much Sunway has benefited from their Australian investment (Wonderland). I strongly believe that even if Wonderland was losing massive amounts of money each year (a claim which is hard to believe), Sunway has still made an overall profit from various land parcel sales. I would be very interested to see if anyone can challenge this point. One of the comments Sunway makes in the article above is "the group could look forward to reaping good return on investment (ROI) from its investment Down Under". I am not sure whether they are referring to their investment so far or their possible future investment in the re-development of the remaining land. From what I can find, Sunway has not actually released any official information on whether the company has overall made or lost money in Australia. I'm guessing they've made a nice profit unfortunately but I'd like to get the true facts
ZordMaker
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I have archived the entire site, actually. I had the links on my Explorer history after trawling the site extensively in the final week before it closed. I will get around to putting up a "phantom link" on the savewonderland site soon. The crucial page about "the future" (the one that appeared for only two days after the closure and then vanished again) has been deleted from their server though. If you havent seen it, Its on http://savewonderland.artelex.com Ive got the local community station behind it now. They have a link on their front page and they are playing a special promo for the site a couple of times a day. ZordMakerOn another note, if you wish to have one last look at wonderland's website you can get in from: http://www.----URL removed for non-compliance with Community Guidelines----/funzone/promo...motions_fr.html It seems to be all active...strange? Cheers Sean -
Can I buy a flat next to the Bush Beast??? But seriously.. Basically the fuss is always about changes. The Cyclone case was lost because it was not the Big Dipper. If they had rebuilt the existing Wooden Big Dipper, then no amount of screaming by residents could possibly have prevented it's operation since there was a clear mandate that the dipper was there before the residents. The same could not be said of the "new" dipper (now Cyclone) which was clearly noisier than the old Dipper - so off it went, taking the "viability" of the park with it. (now where have I heard that word "viability" before recently?..) The only rides the rezzies can have kicked out are those that weren't there beforehand. Personally I think they should build an exact replica of the original Big Dipper and that's that - no amount of court cases or arguing could close it. That would surely piss them all off. ZordMakerindifferent or for Luna Park, but they are the voices that are heard. . -
I trust that you've all sent your letters now.. Keep the forum alive guys.. I sent a "Wonderland For Sale" flyer to Paramount Parks they other day.. for further details contact ING. Please note Ald Leo Kelly is the new Mayor of Blacktown. And he's pissed. ZordMakerThe way Wonderland looked from about 1999 til 2001 was far far better -
what a load of ****e. Dreamworld : 40 mins out of Brisbane. Disneyland : 30 minutes out of L.A. cant speak for the others because I havent been there. Butr bets are on just about every fun park in tghe world is "about 40 minutes" out of the nearest big town.. Guess maybe we should cut the trees down so there are less sticks. ZordMakerBush Beast was about to be changed to 150cm just before they announced the closure too. Bit of useless trivia there for you. People complained that Wonderland was 'out in the sticks'. There's no way they're going to go to Gosford if this was the case. By the way, it's not me saying that Wonderland was out in the sticks, because as far as I'm concerned it's pretty central to everyone. -
I can live with that. As long as by the time it opens my daughter is higher than 122cm...I think that for sure there will be a time when there's another major theme park in Sydney, but not at the Wonderland site. The economy's not quite strong enough and tourism is at too much of a low to plonk down $300 mil just right now. Realistically in the next 10-15 years, I'd say it's pretty likely that you'll have something that makes you wonder why you ever wanted Wonderland still around.
Good on you for trying though, and maybe something does come out of it.
10 years is a typical planning and execution timespan for Sydney. If we start making noise now, 10 years there might be something.
But not in the Sydney basin. There's just no land left. If someone wanted to develop a theme park in Sydney I would think they would have better luck considering the Old Sydney Town site at Gosford or something similar. The only other option in Sydney is Homebush, and I don't think RAS is going to accept major competition to the Easter Show without making a noise.
ZordMaker
ZordMaker
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They should check their cadestral maps. Blacktown Council's master map at their front counter clearly says "3C Business". Experience has shown that "what benefits the state as a whole" can have a habit of changing, especially in Sydney. My arguement is not to counter the statements made by these people, but merely to suggest there is room (literally) on the site for compromise, where both interests can be well catered for. ZordMakerFor those of you who have, or are considering contacting various politicians etc., should read the following release: http://dipnr.nsw.gov.au/mediarel/mn20040217_2466.html The Department of Infrastructure, Planning and Natural Resources have made up their mind - they've made the logical choice, the one which benefits the state as a whole. They support ING, and naturally SEPP 59. I think in nearly all cases, it's much too late to convince these politicians to jump bandwagons. Even your Opposition Party would be crazy to try and stir anything, because simply said, what's being done is in the interest of the state of NSW.
Also, I don't know why you guys think a Gold Coast sized park couldn't survive in Sydney. 
SWR FM???
Cheers
Sean
ZordMaker
Mini Wonderland
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