Guest 239
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Posts posted by Guest 239
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2 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:As long as those turnstiles keep spinning, bean counters don't think there is a problem.
I had this conversation the other day with somebody.
Why should management shoot themselves in the foot for the entertainment of their guests? There is little incentive for a park like Movie World to reduce capacity or control the crowds when they've got guests flooding in.
2 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:Folks who look at attendance charts in a boardroom don't know how pissed off they're making people until they stop coming.
...and then they stand there and wonder why.
Disney understands this and it's why before recent years they've been incredibly careful about their public image.
I can't remember the numbers exactly, but in their early days they found that people were more willing to discuss a bad trip then a good trip, and that bad news spread quickly. This negativity bias is hard to control and once it grows its own legs it snowballs to rather outlandish proportions.
I genuinely think that Village have gotten incredibly lucky to avoid negative press in the past 12 months and, to a degree, I think it's why we are seeing such an apathetic response to guest experience. Dreamworld was changed by their incident, but also the immense pressure that came post-incident from the public, press and officials. Despite Village failing to deliver on their new additions at Sea World several times, providing an exceptionally poor guest experience at Movie World which has been reciprocated by both enthusiasts and the public, having multiple SBNO attractions within their parks including Arkham and Sea World's Log Flume, announcing a hotel before their replacement attractions for Arkham, removing hosts from shows like Affinity and reverting Seal Guardians to it's preview format, bringing third-party vendors into their parks outside of special events with the intention of raising revenue, and the rest, we have really only seen positive articles come out of Parkz towards Village, and I'm not trying to throw the Parkz team under the bus here, but it takes a lot of pressure off the company when they know they're not under the magnifying glass.
These threads and discussions are exactly what is needed to try and kickstart change because it shows that people are taking notice of the problem, and they're only going to continue to get worse for Village as the year goes on. Come September there are going to be a lot more season passes purchased to experience Sea World's new hotness, and Movie World needs to be ready for that influx... But I genuinely don't see how it can.
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1 hour ago, themagician said:
Interested to know if anything for the attraction has changed in the park with the update to the rides name on the website. On my last visit I didn’t notice any signage changes
I didn't notice any signage changes in the park when I visited on Thursday, but it definitely looks like they've cut Mick Doohan from everything. The website landing page and map have been updated to just say 'Motocoaster'
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19 minutes ago, franky said:
I sound argumentative here but I'm not trying to be. People in positions shouldn't matter, the business as a whole should have policies and procedures in place to govern these matters. Dreamworld as a business is still responsible, regardless of who is in what position at the time.
I completely get your side of things and I appreciate your insight into that side of the argument. I guess I see it as a 'Guns don't kill people; people kill people.' sort of argument, but then again I may be comparing apples to oranges with that sort of argument.
21 minutes ago, franky said:which unfortunately has meant the removal of some attractions with no direct replacements announced.
This definitely does hurt the perception of the business. People just don't research theme parks, and when they rock up to find that the attraction they experienced a decade ago is gone they act shocked and surprised.
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16 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:
There is nothing groundbreaking here, and the name says it all - it's the lego refurb.
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17 minutes ago, themagician said:
They got new trains late last year
Cheers! I had no idea. The ride is generally down when I visit.
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On 25/04/2022 at 1:19 AM, Bloxay said:
Do you think DW still has a bad reputation after the 2016 disaster?
Yep.
My family are not theme park people and they protested against going believing it was still unsafe and disrespectful to visit. Once we went they realised that their perception was off, but park kept asking questions about what happened, where it was, etc. For a lot of people, it's still very fresh. As @Brad2912 said, 6 years isn't that long when it comes to these things.
The other unfortunate reality with the usual media negativity bias is that they'll never cover the things that the park has done to improve their situation post-incident. It's a shame that Dreamworld as a park needs to take the fall for the outcome of shitty peoples shitty actions. The park didn't do anything wrong; the negligence came from the people in charge, a vast of majority of which are long gone.
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9 hours ago, Tim Dasco said:
Remove the Fun maze
As much as I'd love to see more attractions, I think our parks really lack things for toddlers to do. The fun maze was where my nephew spent like 75% of his day cause he could just run around care free and it takes a lot of pressure off the parents. I'd love to see more simple areas where toddlers can just play like a Duplo play area or something like that. Otherwise, everything you've suggested is great!
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Did Motocoaster get new bikes or did they just change the decals? I got this picture the other day when they were nudging the train through the tire run.
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We decided to stop by Movie World this morning to show the kids the park knowing that it would be busy and we gave them the heads up that they probably won’t get on any rides because we needed to leave just after midday.
The park was pretty busy, but not unbearably crowded when moving around, however the wait times were really high. As mentioned in the other thread, Doomsday and Green Lantern are down for the day and Wild West Falls was down for the morning and opened with a 100 minute wait.
We mostly wandered around, did the Batman exhibit and some of the smaller rides in the WB Kids area. None of us adults got on any rides, but the kids got on three which was good for keeping them entertained. We passed on HSD2 as it didn’t seem like our groups cup of tea and watched a short Cat Woman show as we left the park.
The parks presentation has improved since I last visited which was great to see, but unfortunately the general atmosphere was pretty down. A lot of families appeared pretty lost, there were many people just sitting around, and I overheard a few verbal altercations amongst family members deciding whether to try for the rides or just go home.
One of my friends was working in the parks today that I didn’t know of and they had no idea I was there. I ran into them interacting with guests and they were fantastic, serious Disney level of professionalism, so I stopped by Guest Relations to put in a good word. Whilst I was filling out the form there were several families that came in one after another complaining about the crowds and waits. The mediator in Guest Relations noted that Virtual Queue was turned off today to help with the wait times, but was giving out single use fast tracks to the more persistent complainers. If you’re reading this and see an opportunity, please don’t pester them. The staff are already under an immense amount of pressure and I saw that many were visibly flustered by the situation.
The parks size and what’s on offer just doesn’t lend itself to the sort of demand that we’re seeing at the moment. Considering that I didn’t get on any rides, I can’t comment on their operations, but DC Rivals was only running one train with a notice out the front that said it was operating at a limited capacity due to circumstances outside of their control which I’d be interested to know more about.
Also of note was that almost all stores and F&B options were open, with some new temporary booths such as coloured braids and those long tube candy things you see at shopping centres. They’re not my thing and I didn’t check the price, but they could make a decent bribe to satisfy a frustrated child.
I agree with others that the park needs an improved layout with some high capacity attractions. My dad noted that when we went as kids it was nothing like this, and that now-defunct attractions such as Gremlins, Batman, and Looney Tunes created a far more fulfilling family day out which was interesting to hear from him.
Going with my family gave me some great perspective regarding our parks and how one might visit with the hierarchy from a toddler to grandparents, what they notice, and what they’re interested in. Their top pick was Dreamworld due to the variety of what was on offer, but they want to come back in the future during a quieter time to really experience Movie World, Sea World, and their attractions properly. I’ve always wondered whether presentation is actually that important, and whether I’m too picky on certain things, but talking to my dad doesn’t do rides and helped push the grandkids prams around, he had nothing better to do then to look around, and this spurred several questions from him about things that I genuinely only thought enthusiasts noticed and cared about.
All round, everybody seemed to have fun with the three parks, including movie world which I believe was in part due to tapered expectations, and they’re excited to come back again in the future. I think it helped them by having somebody who knows the parks and things like virtual queue, because I know that not everybody has had a great time these school holidays.
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I’m currently at the Gold Coast for a family trip. We’ve only done two days at the parks and the crowds are insane. I’ve never seen Sea World so busy, but generally it coped quite well and I had a good day. Rides were seeing some wild times but they relaxed in the afternoon where we could get on Storm several times in a row. The park has the luxury of having a ton of people eaters, and the average punter seems to be more savvy about shows, etc. because there were clear masses of people going back and forth between the presentations.
After watching reviews we opted out of Movie World and went to Dreamworld today. The family wasn’t too impressed with paying more for passes, but they had a great day. The car park was stacked, but the crowds weren’t wild. Every ride was basically a walk on including Steel Taipan. The only decent wait was Sky Voyager but being the only proper family ride on the Gold Coast, I can see why. Street Feast is nice but the food was slow. The kids, which range from toddlers to primary school, all had a blast as well which made the parents happy. Dreamworld really does have the luxury of size and with WWW in simple walking distance, it makes the crowds far more bearable.
Talking to friends at the parks, those that have visited, and the occasional stranger in the elevator; Movie World and WNW are a mess. Everybody I know is saying to avoid those parks which is sad because they’re genuinely good theme parks with great rides, but nobody wants to put up with what is on offer. We will probably skip Movie World this trip, but my family now have season passes and they’re keen to come back on a weekend some time and hit it up when it’s quieter.
I don’t envy those working at those parks at the moment, and I’m sorry for all of the crap that you’re having to put up with for decisions out of your control. The problems seem to go beyond just normal busy crowds, but without going I can’t comment much further then from what I’ve heard.
Another quick note is that it seems that everywhere is lacking staff. Our hotel seems to be copping it a lot, and I’ve gone to several shops and cafes that are running ads for more staff or have notes seeking forgiveness for delays.
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4 hours ago, rappa said:
It may not be something to brag about but that is kinda marketing’s job.
This.
I work in this field and a majority of marketers are wholly aware when they're talking out their ass, but its usually the people above us who are demanding more puffery. -
13 hours ago, joz said:
Also unrelated to talking about the conversation, I think if they forgot interstate holidays were a thing, they should take all the money they made from selling Main Event, buy a tank and a half worth of petrol, and just burn the place down. Somehow I just find it really unlikely that they would be that incompetent.
As somebody who is travelling interstate, I would find it really bizarre that they'd forget, but it also was one of the reasons for not visiting on the last week on NSW school holidays because WWW would be closed and Street Feast would have ended.
It might be a nice little surprise as a marketing push to extend it and keep it in the limelight for locals, but I can't see the benefit for interstate travelers when you're saying "We aren't doing anything for you" one week, and then they turn around the next and go "Ha ha! We actually are! Please replan your holidays!"
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1 hour ago, themagician said:
I’m generally against having them in parks, but I understand it’s a good form of revenue (MW and SW have had them for many many years). If DW are going to keep on having them, maybe they should build permanent ones like they have at the other parks.
Agreed, I think they're tacky, but Kickback Cove would be a decent place to put them. Parents can chill out for 30 minutes whilst you give the kids a twenty to get them to bugger off for a bit.
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10 hours ago, themagician said:
There aren’t any shows or demonstrations because these were mostly targeted at the international audience.
You're on the money. Talking to people involved with the park, they've just not really bothered with the back half considering it was mainly a draw card for tourists from Asia. Once international tourism is back in full swing they'll start reintroducing the farmers, more animals, etc.
But as mentioned above, I think any additions to this area are low on their priority list.
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Despite the circumstances that make it easier for the likes of Westfield and Stockland, it's unfortunately still going to affect your potential audiences perception. You can't exactly have a sign out of the front of your park that says "Please forgive our poor presentation, operating theme parks is hard".
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9 minutes ago, joz said:
I think Westfeild Coomera is a bigger competitor to Village than DW is.
Honestly, I think this says a lot about the current state of Aussie theme parks because it's not a dig; it's true.
Shopping Centers in my area have been shifting direction for a while to include their own little themed areas with restaurants, nightlife and live music. The theming, atmosphere and presentation is MILES ahead of any of the major players on the Gold Coast and that's kind of sad when the whole point of theme parks as a premium gated venues is to be something special that people feel the price is justified to enter.
Currently our theme parks have the luxury of rides and attractions, but when Westfield and Stockland start showing you up just so that they can bolster the value of their rental agreements then you know that you're doing something really, really wrong.
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3 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:
Not to mention that Dreamworld is the only direct competitor to village in an already small market - if they were to exit, village could afford to rest more easily on their laurels.
Within the Australian Enthusiast religion this is known as hell.
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The timing works well for them with the 2032 Olympics. It's the perfect opportunity for a new operator to come into the Australian market with an established theme park and make a name for themselves.
It does also explain why they're so committed to demolishing everything that no longer operates. It creates a better sales pitch when you say "Look at all of this available land!" opposed to "Here's some garbage. You clean it up."
I don't really hold any sentiment towards Ardent so I wouldn't be sad to see them go, but it would be bitter-sweet to see Dreamworld 'converted' to a different property if it was necessary to seal the deal. Hopefully we can get an Alton Towers type situation where an operator comes in with a clear vision whilst bolstering the original property.
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22 minutes ago, Slick said:It's why the Movie World Vs. Dreamworld "thing" often feels like it's less about passionate fan discussion and more about slinging mud. Consider opinions on "world class" - it's a throw-away marketing term, and yet enthusiasts take it to hold up Village up to an unimaginably high bar in order tear them to shreds when literally anything isn't "world class". Are those enthusiasts aware the Dreamworld site and Dreamworld's CEO uses that term too? Does that mean I'm allowed to cry foul whenever Dreamworld falls short of being world class too? Or would I be considered being resentful and petty? Food for thought, that one.
Honestly, and maybe I am wrong, but I've always considered the 'world class' thing to be more of a joke than anything else because it lost all meaning after being used for the umpteenth million time. I doubt that anybody is actually crying foul because of the usage of the word and more so just making a mockery of it, similar to how many make light of the fact that Leviathan is advertised as 'World’s greatest family rollercoaster'. It's all puffery at the end of the day.
But for arguments sake, I think the difference in your comparison is that the examples you included are referring to a 'World Class supplier' and 'world-class tourism infrastructure asset' respectively, unlike Movie World which has 'Australia's #1 Theme Park' flat front and center on their website as well as Sea World having 'Australia #1 Marine Park'. I think it does deserve some criticism when they fall short of their brand's hero message and identity.
I'm one of the many that will happily agree that our theme parks fall short in all regards when compared to the world stage. PhantasiaLand is a great example because VRTP absolutely wipes the floor with them in terms of attendance, yet Phantasia turns around and laughs by creating groundbreaking, legitimate world-class products with seemingly relative ease. This has a bit to do with geography, and I discuss it further here, but because of this I don't think it's unreasonable for people to criticize the presentation and business practices of what is advertised as Australia's #1 theme park.
I'm in the privileged position of having visited many theme parks around the world and my bar is pretty darn high when it comes to actually impressing me, but my metric of success as a guest comes down to something fairly simple; how successfully does a park utilise what is readily available to them to improve the guest experience?
And with this in mind, I just don't believe that Movie World at the moment are successfully utilising their available resources. They are performing lots of big picture refurbishments and it's clear that they're considerate of their brand and image with things such as the Royal Caribbean deal to get guests through the gate, but once you're through those gates is when they start failing in many regards on the smaller stuff. It would be fine if it was some things here and there, but this thread alone shows that it's obvious that its not. The guest experience is suffering, and you can't ignore that for very long when you're main revenue opportunity is convincing the public to enter your premium gated venue.
With their neglect towards internal presentation and a further shift towards predatory purchasing practices, are they making more money than usual? Probably! But so is Disney World, and look how their lack of focus on the guest experience is going for them in terms of public perception.
The benefit for Movie World is that with my metric of success it's very easy for them to turn the situation around by placing that focus back on the guest experience, which is also why it's so disappointing that they aren't doing this already.
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I unironically love the Easter Show. It's a good day out and I've learned to have an appreciation for more than just the rides.
Looks like they've lost their Coca-Cola sponsorship for the rides area. I wonder whether that will have an impact on ride ticket pricing?
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22 minutes ago, Rivals said:
I think ripping out everything besides RRRC, JDS and the carousel and starting again is their best option. Refresh the entire area, add around 4-5 new attractions, move the parents room into the JDS building so there can be air conditioning in the building, and use the rest of the space for new rides.
A ground up younger family area would be spectacular and would really give them a leg up over the competition. What is there is okay, but it's showing its age and it's clear that it's a bit of a hodgepodge of different eras in Movie World's history.
I'd suggest taking inspiration from Universal Wonderland at Universal Studios Japan because I feel it really hits the sweet spot for a family area except for the fact that it doesn't have a dark ride which I feel would be a necessity for a new family area.
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11 hours ago, joz said:
It just gets a bit tedious ya know? 'This is why things are a bit crap at MW right now' 'Grrr where was this sensible explanation with DW?'. Like far out things happen on their own, not just in the context of MW v DW.
I get your frustration and it's valid considering that no place of discussion wants such a watered down conversational atmosphere.
I feel there's always going to be some sort of friction when it comes to a shift in ideas thanks to opinion inertia. It's genuinely difficult to reflect on the positive progress of Movie World and see them start to falter, whilst on the other hand I can understand why people who reflect on Dreamworld being a dumpster fire for the past decade are confused as to why they're suddenly experiencing praise.
As you said, many of these things happen on their own and not just in the context of Movie World vs Dreamworld, but a lot of people don't see it as such and instead see an opportunity to point fingers, pass blame, and provide excuses. When I did my trip report about my Gold Coast trip in January I was conscious of not making any comparisons between the different properties, and instead just outlined my opinions and thoughts over the couple of days, but suddenly it became a Dreamworld VS Movie World thread surprisingly thanks to a community leader saying that Movie World's faults were the direct cause of Dreamworld's actions which left the conversation to the discuss the narrative instead of the content provided.
Honestly I believe the issue exists because it's an easy out for both sides of the argument to ignore the problems and issue presented and instead pass the buck or gaslight the other into believing that their opinion is wrong. This is a hard problem to fix, but it comes down to whether posters are more interested in having a discussion, or simply being right.
Also despite addressing your apathy towards the Dreamworld Vs Movie World discussion, whilst I've written this you've made several attempts to continue it. Seriously, be the change you want to see or stop complaining about it.
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55 minutes ago, joz said:
There was a notable lack of people who are very active in this thread losing their minds that DWs entire thrill ride collection was Claw, Gold Coaster and Pandamonium, so it certainly comes across to me that the commentary some members make is biased.
There have been literal wars waged with countless lives lost through the centuries because two groups disagree on what invisible super power told by some bloke in a really old book is the best.
I don't get how people can be continually gobsmacked by bias affecting this forum's discourse when the focus is on the Gold Coast where there are literally two operators to choose from.
Maybe three if you include King Tut's Putt Putt.
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46 minutes ago, xRazzBerryx said:
Can’t wait for the seatbelt & over the shoulder restraint on the carousel 👍🏼
No child shall suffer again.
The Decline Of Movie World
in Theme Park Discussion
Posted
With little word from the park beyond some social replies, of course people are going to come to their own conclusion. What one may see as proactive solutions to resolve park issues, others could interpret as knee jerk reactions to poor critical response. Either way, it's impossible to know what the park is actually doing if we don't hear from them regarding the matter, and sadly their only public response has been "Don't come on school holidays" which is hardly a sympathetic response to disgruntled guests.
Nobody is asking for what they're providing to be perfect, but I think it should still be serviceable. Two to three hour waits is acceptable for parks like Disney where you've got plenty to do and can miss the new hotness whilst still having a great day, but for a theme park that only has under ten major attractions with one major show and a simple parade, you should NOT be required to go for more than one day to experience all of it. For comparison sake, Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World opened with a comparable number of attractions in 1998 and that was considered a half-day park. It was and still is a gigantic park, had more shows, larger-scale attractions, and a whole bunch of zoo elements, so what's Movie World's excuse for making people come back for several days during the school holidays so that they can experience everything at least once?
Remember, not everybody out there is an informed theme park insider or has a season pass. If you're going to the Gold Coast for a holiday, you're probably dedicating a single day for Movie World with your three day pass, and they don't have the luxury of going "Oh dang, it's busy. I'll come back when it's quieter." The public response has been lukewarm at best, which is less than ideal for Australia's premier theme park.
Despite all the money they've sunk into the park in recent years which has improved their demand, their attraction throughput and capacity has dropped to woefully low levels compared to yesteryear. Yes, these things do cycle, but the problems they have are not simple things to fix. You can't simply revert Wild West Falls to the crowd gobbler it was before, you can't speed up Superman Escape any further before it's aging systems hit problems, you can't add more trains to Rivals or Scooby, you can't reopen Arkham, you can't reduce ride outages on unpredictable systems with notoriously bad track records, and you simply can't add more attractions to pick up the slack when these attractions go down. Movie World over the school holidays is theoretically at it's peak capacity give or take Doomsday being open and Rivals having an additional train, and both of those things are NOT going to reduce the crowds by any measurable amount. The fact that changing ride down time, removing virtual queue and fast track barely made a dint should be terrifying for the operational team.
Also Hooray for Hollywood is just around the corner, and with New Atlantis expected to open in September, I won't be surprised if we see this event slated for the September school holidays to pick up some slack for Sea World. The increased demand for Village properties plus a special event at an already very popular theme park is going to draw some crazy crowds, and I'll be surprised if an additional hour of operational time will compensate for this.
The park desperately needs at least two high capacity attractions, and from what we've seen this is not on the cards for their next expansion. If they decide to go ahead with those plans, than it'll be 5-7 years at best before the park has the CapEx for future endeavors, or they can scrap their current plans but that still leaves us several years off as they go through the process of finding vendors, getting approval, and all the other fun stuff that comes with building attractions.
This is not Movie World having a bad couple weeks; this is Movie World for the foreseeable future thanks to pent-up post-COVID demand.
Take this with a grain salt because I'm one person, but as somebody who has tried to engage with the business directly, I've had a historically difficult time opening up any sort of communication channels with them. In fairness I have been publicly critical of the business since their reopening in mid-2020 so I don't expect a red carpet, but if you're only willing to engage with individuals and groups that toot your horn then you're never going to get the feedback you need to hear, just the feedback you want to hear.
Also in my day job I'm required to monitor socials and reviews, and I can tell you that the eventual vocal bad review isn't surprising. I've had people complain and leave bad reviews about things that are ridiculous and you can spot these idiots from a mile away, but you can also identify when you're doing stuff wrong. We're a smaller business, so reviews matter for us, and when you start to notice an influx of bad reviews than its a clear indication that you're doing something wrong.
And the reviews aren't just bad on Facebook, but also Google and Trip Advisor. Yes, they are known cesspits for common whiners, but historically it's never been this bad and you can't ignore that. Below are reviews from 2019 and they're glowing. People love the place and there is the eventual bad review, but if you scroll through the reviews in either direction you see nothing but praise towards the park.
https://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Attraction_Review-g658988-d273704-Reviews-or590-Warner_Bros_Movie_World-Oxenford_Gold_Coast_Queensland.html
Compare that to the most recent reviews where it's pages upon pages of negative reviews.
https://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Attraction_Review-g658988-d273704-Reviews-Warner_Bros_Movie_World-Oxenford_Gold_Coast_Queensland.html
Could it just be a cesspool of whiners? Possibly. But scroll all the way back to page 30 and you'll notice that the sentiment towards the park only becomes majority positive pre-COVID. You can palm off these reviews, but you can't argue that peoples opinions were far more favorable before the pandemic and whatever they're doing after reopening just must not be working. People haven't changed that dramatically in their views and opinions over the past 2 years despite the media cycle making us believe that every other person is an insane lunatic with outlandish views. If anything you'd think that people would be more forgiving considering that they've been waiting this long for some entertainment, but if we continue to just regard any bad feedback as whiners then you'll only pay attention to what you want to hear, not what you need to hear.