zordmaker

Further to all that blahdebluhh, here is the actual document: http://www.cms.dpws.nsw.gov.au/NR/rdonlyre...f+2004.indd.pdf Decide for yourself what it means. Basically for the less educated it says this: "Wonderland is now to be considered as part of SEPP59". DUUHH. Actually that's the first positive move we've had since the old Wonderland closed. Says nothing about how it will be used. ZordMaker

"Gazetted" doesn't mean "approved" guys. If I say to my wife "I think I might ride THAT coaster" does it mean that I am going to actually get to ride it? "-) There ha sbeen no rezoning (actually, it is not needed.. the site is already zoned 3C Business) and there has been no approvals. All it means is that a bunch of Dept of Planning staffers have prepared an amendment (No. 6) to SEPP59 which recommends that the Wonderland site be used for "employment". It hasn't been considered, approved or passed by any minister or government. Most of the information they are working on is over 5 years old. The Amendment doesnt rezone the land. It simply sets a framework for the subdivision of the land and recommends where things like public roads, sewers, power lines, open space etc etc should be placed if the developer wants to subdivide. Its part of the process a developer must go through to redevelop land. In particular (depending on the plan) up to 30% of the land may return to public hands (in the form of roads & open space which comes under the responsibility of the local council) as happens with all subdivisions. It's VERY early days yet. Nobody (not even ING) have had a chance to accept it yet. For all we know it might be exactly the opposite to what ING wants to do with the land. The Amendment simply attempts to bring the plans into line with those for the land surrounding it. There's no point ING planning to have a road entering the Western corner if the Plan states the road entry is goign to be on the Southern side etc etc. Its all a long and drawn out part of taking someting that is currently 100% private controlled and chopping it up into smaller bits separated by public owned infrastructure. Read the letter from Dept of Planning at the start of this thread. It is quite clear. The newspaper article refers to the amendment gazetted on 4/7/04. I am currently obtaining a copy of the entire amendment to place on the web site also. Then you can all have your $0.02.. and I hope you do. ZordMaker

Yes, more or less right.. but ING are going to need a little encouragement to do that. Basically they need someone to either show them a clear business case that the theme park can be just as profitable as their own alternative plans.. or for the Governing bodies controlling the zoning to "place a few bricks" in the way of ING's plans, encouraging them to steer round them rather than smash them to pieces.. Zordmaker

The Wonderland is freehold, there are no leases that I can determine. ZordMaker

All we need is.. umm... a company with alot of capital to spend.. :-) Keep the pressure on them pollies guys.. ZordMaker

Letter received from Dept of Planning: http://savewonderland.artelex.com Nothing really surprising here except that it tells us what we already know - Wonderland is stuck in "development hell" and it's up to the pollies to decide it's fate. ZordMaker

Wonder where THAT came from :-) ZordMaker

Just an update. Reliable sources in Blacktown Council have indicated that there are at least two potential investors lining up with "recreational use" plans for parts of the Wonderland site. At least one includes keeping some of the rides from the old Wonderland. Early days yes, but things are certainly happening. Keep the ideas rolling along guys. It looks like Council's position may be coming over to our side, and thats a start. ZordMaker

Not wanting to give too much away at this early stage but the Heritage Order for the Bush Beast has gone in. As for your sighting.. probably more to do with prospective buyers than reopening the ride. ZordMaker

Although you say the park would not "start" with all of them, it would certainly need to start with a single plan and not deviate from it. The reality is that most parks are historical and things are put where they go because of a thousand different engineering reasons mainly other things being in the way, easements, underground services, clearances, heritage orders on some buildings, preservation orders on trees etc etc etc. But it's a great demonstration of just what is possible in a (relatively) small space. The space you mention is about the same size as that planned for "Mini Wonderland". But my only concern would be that there are alot of rides and not much else.. pity if you're not a Rides person. Needs to be plenty of room for eating, after all that's what makes the cash registers tingle, not rides. I wonder if you could add up an approximate cost of establishing all these rides based on a totally greenfield site?... ZordMaker

Sydney? Im guessing if so then it is probably ONeill's AdventureLand at Prestons (Camden Valley Way) that you're thinking about. No there's not much left. The slides are still there I think. I think the land was sold as recently as earlier this year. O'Neills were a carnie firm that have been around for yonkers. The land was mainly used to store the carnie rides. ZordMaker.

Nothing. Open space. Bomb testing. I'm sure something will come up someday though, possibly more sports grounds etc. Extremely unlikely ever to leave public ownership. Telstra sold it back to the Federal Govt in 1999. SWRFM appplied to get the old Transmitter building for it's studio before it was demolished but we were too late, it got trashed and is now gone along with all the antennas, etc. ZordMaker

That may be true, yes. It is zoned open space and may be able to be used for such a purpose. However for the moment, the main aim was to make it so that certain "hard to move" assets at Wonderland could remain where they are rather than starting out on a greenfield site from scratch which would be very costly. Still, in the event that WL finally does go under the Bulldozer then yes it would be a good place to start. However a better place (more viable) would be Homebush Bay, IMO. It would be a hard fight to convince Dept of Planning to allow any sort of development on the OTC site, which is part of the Western Sydney green belt. But then again, they built the Olympic Softball Stadium across the road, didnt they. There is a large council held land parcel almost next to WL, on the other side of the M4 (Dog Pound). Apart from some old sheds there's just about jack all there. There's a chance that if convinced BCC might be able to "swap" that land for the Mini Wonderland site. Need to find somewhere for the dogs, though:-) As you can see it would be virtually the same as far as ING was concerned. Lots of possibilities, and time is on our side. ZordMaker.

Definitely cant remember that one, and I worked in Rooty Hill from 1987 to 1989. ZordMaker

I would call that fairly average for such a ride. Once a day would be too much. "Structural Problems" can mean anything. Its all an opinion. It happens regularly in an industry where people are confronted with things they are not familiar with. The Railways are the same. One man's "Structural Problem" is another's "Standard Practice". I think you'll find it was just a difference of opinion between one or two inspecting engineers. Standard Practice at many (particularly European) Parks, and of course any special event. Sydneysiders are used to it, after being introduced to the idea at the Olympics. Simple. Want a park, come early. Rock up late, catch the bus. I guess because it is unique, thats why. I guess they might get away with demolishing it if only to build another in it's place. ZordMaker.

BB may end up with a Heritage order on it. That's the only problem there. There has been talk of it in BCC circles lately. A few more people have become involved as well through BCC, it seems Im not the only one with the plan. There is likely to be a meeting held. More as it happens. ZordMaker

Only overflow parking outside. Enough on site parking will be provided for regular school holidays. Extra parking will be arranged for Public Holidays, when available in surrounding areas. A Shuttle bus service will also run. Hmm.. know anyone who rents out buses?..Ones that are Wonderful?...:-) Well, nice of you to give me that information, but I think I'll take an expert opinion once one is offered. The Auction process should be an ideal opportunity to inspect the goods and have a condition report prepared. Basically as far as I am concerned the Demon was and still is in "operating condition". There has been no mention anywhere of track or structural problems. Keep the thread going guys.. ZordMaker

Lets put it this way: if nobody wants it then why not use it somewhere. But I wouldnt bid for it. Your kind of right though I guess. Why spend $1.2m relocating Demon when you can probably get something really good "off the shelf" for $5m, and then sell Demon to some other park that has nothing at all and is just looking for something to fill in some space. Its not the kind of ride you come back for again and again, granted. Going backwards is a real hurl turner for some.. including me. I prefer to see where Im going. ZordMaker.

You've got a different opinion? Lest hear it. Whats _really_ wrong with Demon, then? ZordMaker

Who said it was stuffed? Bush Beast, now THAT's stuffed. (Will take around $1m to bring back to standard I think) Needs new track, complete paint of entire structure & replace splintered timbers, dissassemble & rebuild lift, Refurbish station. Demon is fine. New coat of paint, new carriage wheels and new brakes and it'll be like a brand new coaster. ZordMaker.

I woudnt keep any of the old Public facilities myself, they're all in poor condition and waaaay life expired. Redeveloping MWL would mean new services (eg sewer) to the site entering in different locations to the current ones. People demand far better personal facilities from Public Spaces nowadays. The facilities would need to be "first class", spacious and clean to win customers and keep 'em coming back. ZordMaker

The Beach could use a "real" Swimming pool to make it more viable, i.e. a 50m Olympic size lap pool, possibly heated to extend the season (not a covered all year rounder though). Also the throughput capacity for the Water Tube needs serious treatment. This ride is always packed and the waiting times of over an hour are unacceptable in MWL. With these added and an entrance fee below $10 per head, the Beach would be viable in it's own right. But out the rides next to it, bump up the price to $15 and add some good eateries, and you've just made a "few hours" experience into a "whole day" one which will draw more customers and keep them there to buy Lunch and Dinner. I only suggested keeping Demon because of the obviously low cost when compared with buying a brand new coaster, and I certainly wouldn't bid for it against someone else who wanted it bad for their own park. But I do agree, it would be more viable to buy at least _one_ brand new, very large and "wow factor" ride for MWL to kick it off and give it status. Demon could be dismantled and stashed for a few years, then (eventually) reassembled 10 years later, repainted and called something else. 80% of the visiting Public (except of course for ride junkies like you find here) would not be able to tell the difference:-) Of course if it were my choice, that would be a copy of PKI's "Son of Beast"... :-) Zordmaker

I might add that space for Back of House and Admin is not that important in the calculations. That can easily be accomodated in some of the "To Let" Industrial units next door :-) ZordMaker