Guest 239
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Posts posted by Guest 239
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11 minutes ago, joz said:
This issue is that DW got a grant of about $3million for a thing. They then said 'we aren't doing that thing anymore. Can we use the money for building this thing instead?'. Government said 'Yes'.
This relies heavily off Dreamworld being the ones who asked for the money to be changed to a different project, but it's not clear that happened. This is the timeline as per the guardian article:
The Queensland government provided $2.7m to build the Future Lab wildlife research centre at Dreamworld, on the Gold Coast, in 2019.
“In early 2020, Dreamworld requested that the project be placed on hold while it focused its future investment activities on new rides and attractions,” Hinchliffe told the estimates hearing.
In a bid to kickstart the tourist industry, the government launched the $25m Growing Tourism Infrastructure Fund to accelerate its recovery from Covid-19.
“Under that fund, we saw Dreamworld seeking assistance for the support and construction of a new multi-launch rollercoaster ride,” Hinchliffe said.
The park was given the green light to “repurpose” the funding.
From what I can gather here, Dreamworld put the project on hold and therefore so were the funds. They then requested funds from the 'Growing Tourism Infrastructure Fund' and the government instead decided to repurpose their existing fund to become part of the GTIF.
This is very different from them saying "Can we take our Koala money and build a roller coaster, please?"
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3 minutes ago, joz said:
They diverted funds away from Koala Research.
It's splitting hairs, but it was a research facility, not research. Dreamworld would have still been required to fit the bill when it came to employment, research, and conservation - I believe they already do this via the DWF.
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6 minutes ago, Rivals said:
couldn’t agree more. If village got funding to finish projects such as The New Atlantis and WoO i expect everyone on here attacking dreamworld now to be as passionate as they are right now.
This was after they were bought out by a private investment firm.
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7 minutes ago, webslave said:
Take Dreamworld and roller-coasters out of it for a second; if the Government today announced that money previously earmarked for a stand-alone Koala research facility had been re-allocated to helping restart Queensland's badly affected tourism industry post-Covid would you still have the low-tide brigade on social media bitching about it because "Koalas are cute"?
People love a good bit of outrage, despite this amount of money being an ant's fart in the grand scheme of QLD's tourism spending. In their 2022-23 budget they've already allocated $186.1 million over four years JUST for Stadium Queensland day-to-day operations and ongoing maintenance expenses.
They've also announced an additional $24 million of a separate fund would go directly into protecting koala populations and habitats.
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Just now, joz said:
Are they profitable now?
Not sure, but have plenty of cash from what @Slick is saying.
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1 minute ago, joz said:
To be fair, comments on Facebook are a pretty ordinary guide when it comes to finding the truth on a subject. I don't think 'what does Facebook think' should be the gold standard.
Agreed. Myself and others have been fairly heavily criticised in the past for using Facebook and social media reactions as an indication towards how things are going within the parks.
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1 minute ago, Slick said:
You're shifting the goal posts so i'll re-articulate. If an airline or a large financial institution becomes unprofitable during a crisis like the GFC, requires a government handout to continue to operate, and then returns a large dividend to share-holders, have the tax-payers been taken for a ride and is it moral despite being totally 100% legal?
Probably a poor example because this happens frequently. Harvey Norman, a business that made record profits during COVID-19 but still got government handouts, only paid back $6 million of their $20 million they got from taxpayers.
Dreamworld, by all comparisons, are saints here compared other institutions. Genuinely I don't believe that Dreamworld should need to pay back any money to taxpayers if it wasn't their initial obligation. Just because they're profitable now doesn't negate that they previously weren't and required support.
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7 minutes ago, Slick said:
Given that the company has north of 160m in cash and no debts, should Ardent pay that money back to tax-payers if they didn't need it in the end and it wasn't used for its intended purpose?
I think local businesses relying off tourism and the Queensland government would be unanimous in agreeing that money should be put back into creating a popular and profitable theme park.
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15 minutes ago, joz said:
The double standards here are amazing, and as is typical with the same group on here, people HAVE to drag someone else through the mud to say why the thing they like is good. It's rather appalling really.
This isn't called for and its rather insulting towards the community. The response on here has been pretty unanimous in agreeing that no wrong-doing was done here, yet their rebuttals are being palmed off as the 'typical same group'. A vast majority of the arguments here have not dragged someone else through the mud and I don't see anybody just going "But it's Dreamworld! They're just great! We love them!".
I have no idea what you want from Dreamworld. Do you want Koalas? Do you want them to pay back the money? It honestly just seems like you're upset that people aren't upset.
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7 minutes ago, rappa said:
Honest the Dreamworld sap bias is so ridiculous in this matter.
Dreamworld can't win either way with your argument. They built the coaster and diverted funds with permission which apparently makes them incompetent in their animal treatment, but if they opened after the pandemic and their only new addition was a Koala research center then they'd be raked over the coals for being incompetent theme park operators.
Both Dreamworld and the government recognized that the research investment at that time would not be wise and they made the right choice to drive gate with Steel Taipan. The government needs to make investments that they can guarantee they'll get returns from and there is no point in building a Koala research center on public funds if Dreamworld is struggling to keep the lights on post-COVID. You can't have research within a theme park if the theme park isn't bringing in guests.
The coaster has shown to be a wise investment to get a minor percentage of people up to Dreamworld. If people are choosing to stay on the Gold Coast a little longer to experience Dreamworld and the other parks then the government ultimately benefits from the additional revenue generated by tourism.
This is the least controversial controversy to come out in a while.
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Not saying that you're wrong but I haven't heard any of these allegations. Do you have any sources to back them up?
The situation seems pretty standard to me. COVID delayed the project and Dreamworld asked to use it for Steel Taipan which they approved.
“The Queensland government approved that the funding previously approved for the research facility be repurposed to support the construction of the new ride, taking into consideration the immediate impacts of the pandemic and the appeal of new tourism offers likely to attract returning domestic visitors and international tourists when borders reopened,” Hinchliffe said. Link to article
Also the project isn't cancelled it's just on hold. This could change in the future, but I think their reasoning for wanting to divert funds was pretty sound and the government seems to agree. The coaster didn't come at the expense of their animals or their well-being, and it's not like they built the thrill ride right next to a rehabilitation area.
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There's a lot of overlap there which is a bit yikes.
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Just now, Cactus_Matt said:
I can imagine the shareholders looking down the road at Movie World's packed car park and seeing dollar signs in their eyes then turning to their own park and wondering where that tumbleweed came from.
I'd genuinely love to see their books because whilst Movie World is pulling in the crowds the general gist seems to be that guest satisfaction is fairly low and they're needing to spread the profits of a single season pass across 4 properties versus Dreamworld's one and a half properties. Their controversial attraction removals have allowed their operations to be far more efficient which helps them out when it comes to staffing and maintenance plus their weekend markets seem to be doing alright.
I don't think Dreamworld will be Australia's first choice for a long unless some serious marketing is done, but I don't really think they're that envious of the properties down the road. I feel Dreamworld has offloaded a lot of their weight to allow them to navigate the market easier in the future.
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11 minutes ago, New display name said:
a Dreamworld holiday.
🎶 A Dreamworld one day holiday?
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They're taking the Atlantis theme really seriously and dumping the entire thing into Sea World lake for a grand opening.
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@New display name - Yep. Whole website has been updated. When linking on Facebook it shows up as 'opening the summer at The Mew Atlantis' which I just find hilarious.
https://seaworld.com.au/attractions/rides-and-precincts/the-new-atlantis/leviathan
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Just now, New display name said:
People online are way more excited it involves Wizard of Oz over some new coasters.
That's what I mean. The Wizard of Oz theme is great for driving gate because its recognizable and timeless, but often times it seems that to the marketers its not enough to just have the theme - They need to ensure that people know its the world's first/world's best/biggest/etc. thing related to said theme.
I appreciate that they're just doing their job, and I jest about all of this very lightheartedly. It's just classic theme park marketing. It's not necessarily a VRTP exclusive thing.
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I appreciate what you're trying to say but I doubt that anybody is actually upset about their marketing. Others are free to chime in, but speaking for myself, I was taking the piss because if you're even remotely in the know then Village's marketing is simply hilarious.
My favourite example is that their hero statement for their announcement is that this is the world's first Wizard of Oz land. It's not.
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I can see why a hard 5 PM rule might be preferable to a softer one. The coaster is right at the front of the park which means that you've got a parks worth of people heading that way to leave. It wouldn't be difficult for a small crowd to amass and then have to disappointment them when you close the attraction because the paying customers are done riding.
I think the better solution would be to just limit 4-5 PM riders so that staff and guests don't have to lull around waiting for maybes.
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World's tallest, fastest, and greatest THE WIZARD OF OZ™ themed roller coaster to be constructed on the plot of a BATMAN™ attraction in a WARNER BROS.™ theme park?
I love the thought that marketing thinks there is somebody out there completely uninterested in two (three?) new rollercoasters until seeing that they're Wizard of Oz themed where they suddenly burst out of their chair and throw their wallet at their computer for tickets to opening day.
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16 minutes ago, Ogre said:
I get that, I just mean - how do you theme a duelling coaster to a twister? Usually they have a racing / fighting theme of some sort.
I probably wouldn't look into it too much. The progression of theme is a little chaotic considering that you go from the Emerald City into Kansas and then into the Witches castle, but I think the reasoning is that it allows them to use the existing train design that Vekoma has already fabricated - https://www.vekoma.com/sitdown-family-coasters/family-boomerang-racer
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7 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:
It confuses my why Movie World would choose to downplay this by stating two rides, when there are three distinct tracks
It makes sense from an operational perspective. If they queue to a primary center platform and then have a left & right side which guests get ushered to, they can theoretically disable a side without it showing as a closure.
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10 minutes ago, Rivals said:
every coaster that has head choppers / low clearances is checked to make sure passengers you know, wont have their heads decapitated or hands broken. it happens to every ride including Steel Taipan when they checked the tunnel and rock structure after the mid course. also i think it’s pretty self explanatory as to why they’d be checking the structure especially as wood can expand.
Cheers for the explanation Rivals and I appreciate the friendly approach in response to me being ignorant. I'm aware of the clearance process, but in a jetlagged stupor I put more scrutiny into normal processes after hearing the rumour.
Ultimately it's just that - a rumour. I wouldn't think much of it until we get closer to September and have more information about the coaster's state.
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Because it's a discussion board and I wanted to discuss with the people who were discussing what that I had heard about.
The New Atlantis - Construction Updates
in Theme Park Discussion
Posted
I like the vertical garden. It looks nice.
@Richarddo you know if there will be a sign for the attraction above the entrance within the garden? I'd be worried that if there isn't anything to suggest it's the entrance that people would go down the exit to the left.