Gazza

This is something I have been thinking about for a while, but what about a B&M flying coaster? The first installation, AIR came in at around $26 million AUD (a fairly short prototype, with a fair bit of digging), and the more recent Tatusu came in at lower $23 million AUD (A huge 1.1km long layout built high off the ground on a sloping mountain) These sorts of prices aren't that far out of MWs $20 million or so limit, so I don't actually think a small flying coaster (even a cheaper Superman/Crystal Wings clone) is too far out of the question. You could ditch the dual station and the 3rd train, and that right there is a couple of million off the price (The two train S:UF at SFGA can handle 1,100 pph anyway, and personally I think the second station is unnecessary, flyers only take about 20 seconds longer in the station (lifting/lowering takes 10 secs each way) ) and naturally it would be a bit cheaper building on flat land than on the side of a mountain in an earthquake prone area. These really are fantastic rides, and I couldn't see it being anything but a hit. Theme wise, I know the Matrix trilogy is a bit old, but I think Neo's flying ability would translate well into a flying coaster, ultimately the theme would be a way of Including a WB licence. It could be based around the sequence in the second film where Neo gets trapped at a Château, and must fly quickly to the city to rescue Morpheus on the top of the truck in that freeway chase. The queue would begin with a cool entrance portal signifying entering the matrix (if they still have theming from the Matrix Exhibit, recycle some of that) The queue would then be in a pleasant landscaped garden and would enter the Château, there would be a couple of suitably themed rooms, and the pre show would simply involve the scenes from the film that lead up to freeway chase. Riders would then board in a station that continues the château theme. The coaster would follow, with no elaborate theming, just nice landscaping and coniferous trees. A final interesting element would be just before the brakes (which could somehow be poked out of the main layout) a scene would be set up with 2 trucks crashed into each other on an asphalted section of mock freeway simulating that final moment when Neo plucks Morpheus to safety. The track would fly directly over the trucks.

Why is there a concern about impacting on super pass sales? With tourists, In effect they would use the park equally as much no matter whether it was a super pass or a Ultimate pass they used to get in. Any lost super pass sales would be absorbed by Ultimate pass sales. Locals wouldn't buy super passes so its not like they would impact on that market segment either by offering an unlimited pass at a cheaper rate. I think the pass should be a little bit cheaper considering other park chains have better value ones, or at least do Richos idea and have a restricted pass available, which could help drive attendance outside peak times.

^I think then station set up becomes important, if they want to hit full capacity there needs to be some sort of way (perhaps like on thunder river, though with the spilt in the queue further back) where single riders are separated off so that way ride ops have a supply of riders they can quickly and easily draw from. My memory of SDSC is a bit sketchy, i remember the queue comes in the station opposite the direction of travel, then U turns and opens up to the area where the 2 sets of gates for the 2 cars are. You could have a single rider division perhaps that starts back in the tunnel that connects the main hall to the station and ends at the area where the gates are (the logic in having a long SRQ is that it could encourage people to split in order to save time if it means they bypass the main line, given they can visually see the difference). The sorter would pull guests from the main queue first, if its a group of 3 then one would be pulled from the SRQ, if it were a group of 2 then they would first check the main queue for another pair, and if one wasn't available then they would pull 2 singles from the SRQ. Im just using SDSC as an example , I know that ride has good capacity already, but hey an improvement on any ride is a good thing.

I might get a MW/WnW one as those are the two parks I'd like to hit most often. Its good they have finally started doing these, I'd be interested to see how these compare to things like the Six Flafs, Cedar Fair, Tussauds etc passes though.

We really should answer this blokes questions before we get too far. With SW the rides never seem to get long queues, I think the worst I have seen is 45 minutes for Bermuda Triangle, rides like Corkscrew or the Pirate Ship are walk on the whole year. Though the water park can get a bit busy, particularly the 2 body slides. DW Ill leave for others to describe, but it does get the worst queues, some rides like Wipeout and the Claw tend to get short waits, but for everything else, half an hour at least, though often an hour, and sometimes more. The trick is to arrive early and get the low capacity rides done early with no queue (Eg Motocoaster, Giant Drop, Cyclone) Im sure you have some experience with MW already, but when Superman is running 2 trains (should be happening since it is summer) you can get on very quickly (20 minutes). Lethal weapon never seems busy, and most of the looney tunes village rides don't get terribly long waits either, far less than half an hour. WWF and Scooby Doo are busiest, because they are wet and air conditioned respectively, A long queue for scooby might be an hour, WWF can get long lines too, though if they are running at full capacity the queue house only holds 30 minutes worth when full. Its usually a good idea to ride scooby doo first a couple of times early when the park opens, and then progress on to WWF, everybody seems to get caught up with Superman and Batwing Spaceshot first so thats why these stay fairly quiet early on. Wet n Wild gets packed in summer, I have never attempted it, but at night the rides all have pretty short queues when the dive in movies are on, so take advantage of the discounted after 4pm entry. Outside of summer, its not really that bad. Given you would have experience with the UK parks, you will probably be pleasantly surprised by queue lengths actually, we don't get the attendance so you'd never really get 2 hour lines. But with what T-Bone was saying. I think a good measure would be to have single rider queues on the major rides. The claw wouldn't have really needed it since they just count out 32 people, and then calling for people to fill the gaps is easy because they group the next batch while the ride is cycling, so its not hard to see why they ditched the SRQ after a month. But the coasters, and especially rides with small vehicles (Eg SDSC) could really benefit from operating like this. For starters it means single riders aren't clogging up the normal queue, the more single riders there are separate from the main queue and filling gaps, the shorter the waits are for everyone else. This is important because often a single rider gets a row to themselves when they do eventually get to board, so the problem doubles up: you end up with groups not fully filling cars but at the same time single riders having empty spaces around them. Secondly, I think it really is good for customer service, It is mutual advantage for both those operating and the guests, and it would leave visitors with a good feeling knowing they have avoided a lengthy wait.

To clarify, its not like the single rider entrances you may be used to, basically you still have to go through the main queue house, but a few meters before the loading area the queue splits, and the ops fill rafts from both queues accordingly. It doesn't really save any time as its not like the ones at SFMM, Disney etc where you go in via the exit, and then fill seats with no wait.

^Just on that, assuming there arent any problems with the train, how full are the trains going out? Do they make an effort like some other rides and call for single riders to fill any spaces. The ride already has a relativley low capacity, and each train only seats 16, so it would be a shame if trains weren't going out full most of the time.

See guys, this is what I'm talking about when I say an Aussie park need a woodie. I can see that sort of thing being great just plopped in at MW, just spend a bit extra on a themed queue (I think the trains on that look perfect already) and there you have a ride up there with the best here. Where are all those people who say woodies are crap now? I gotta say the 5th and 6th pictures look like fun, It's not just airtime, its hairtime.

^ I might add also try and keep a professional tone, don't rant and don't exaggerate, and explain how you were affected, rather than just bagging out the park/ride. And of course, if you can use snail mail that is a better option, but as GoGoBoy said if email is all you can use then it is better than nothing. Maybe before I visit the park to ride this I should stop by the post office and buy bubble wrap, then pack it down the legs of my pants

At what points prior have I made a personal attack? You need to see the difference between attacking the idea and attacking the person. At no point did I ever insult you. I have disagreed with your ideas, or corrected you (Sorry for being right) but that's just the way things run. Also, I think it's interesting that there have been a few times where people have said I have been attacking them or being too harsh even when I am clearly not. At the same time in virtually every case well respected members have backed up what I had been saying and come to my defense. You can say whatever about me, but I'm still going to post the way i do, and I'ts really water off a ducks back because people the who I respect are listening. If you get upset by people criticising your suggestions then a public forum is not for you. Sorry, but Im not just going to love every suggestion for a park I hear. In real life there are good and bad rides, we all know that and we all have the rides we love and hate. Why are the rides in our imaginations any different? Sometimes I see ideas that are just as awful as the worst rides in real life, I'm not going to hold back just to keep the peace, what sort of a bland forum would it be if everyone did that? Isn't it ironic that we often see posts along the lines of "What were park management thinking?", if we can criticize their thinking, why not those of other forum users? Whist personal attacks are not on, challenging ideas and giving feedback is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. What's the point of ideas threads again?

Tony's got it in one. From memory Batwing remains open during the rain, so really its only SE that remains shut. I guess its just luck of the draw really, SE didnt open till late in the day when I was there due to bad weather, but that's just the way it runs. And hey, if its stormy with lighting, its all in the Halloween spirit isn't it

Seriously mate grow up, if you haven't got something worthwhile to say then don't post. I took the effort to give a reasoned viewpoint and here you are typing some meaningless, 2 worded obnoxious post, I mean what are you getting at? You just quoted the post and wrote "umm...and", what else do you want me to say? I guess my post was just a bit over your head.....

^What you are forgetting is that Six Flags don't really build new parks, they buy and operate existing ones, well least till a few years ago, now the company is downsizing and selling off parks, the company is still in a lot of debt, and the CEO has stated their days of building $20 million coasters are over. I prefer to take the realists view, at least that way you aren't setting yourself up for disappointment. I have more hope in our existing parks just being successful and continuing to deliver good quality rides. The market is out there for a new park, just look at the proposals we have seen over the years, so it is on the minds of some, heck who predicted WWW. Yeah, people can say 'anything is possible' and 'all we can do is hope', but IMO these are easy statements to make that cant be disproven.

It's part of the compilation: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Elgwn-6nJWg Get it while you can, a duplicate video like it was taken down due to copyright claims by the ABC (American). On another note, next time I ride the twister I am going to see If it is possible to do that on purpose.

I did a bit of digging, and there is a trip report which desribes the ride here: http://www.bannister.org/coasters/trips/2005/0902.htm The only picture I could find was this one: Keep in mind those 2 hour queues were happening with one train in use, and combined with DWs coaster operating techniques not that unexpected. But I can see what you mean, I was sort of comparing with our newer coasters which do close to or just over 800pph so I guess I assumed that was a respectable level. I reckon though if you took approriate measures you could squeeze a good capacity out of one, stuff like single rider queues and good station set ups aren't done nearly enough here. Still, as you said price is a big factor, I'd be really interested in what exactly the cost of these is, its just too hard to predict, I mean with normal coasters you often see themed and unthemed variants of the same thing so you can work out the cost, not so with these. What is also hard is with these asian installations you really don't know how elaborate they have gone with the theming. Still, its fun to dream.

I have been on one, In fact Indiana Jones is my favourite ride out of all I have been on. Your space argument makes no sense, WVTP own a huge amount of land, And as you can see only a small part is actually used by MW. Lack of space is not an excuse to build crappy rides.

Well, In any case they could just get a quote to see what $20 million could do. I mean I really have no idea how much they would cost, Its funny because just looking at that video on the Intamin website, you wouldn't pick something so cute to be something so hugely expensive. Now Indiana Jones at Disney runs with 15 vehicles and has an hourly capacity of 2400 (sorry, not 2500) Now, I think if it were an Australian installation, MW might be willing to accept a capacity of 800pph just to get the ride and IMO that is still pretty reasonable, better than Motocoaster anyway. So MW could perhaps have 5 transports in use, and one spare. Those vehicles cost millions, so if you could reduce the number of them to a minimum then that's a big bit of your costs gone. I suppose you could cut the ride time a bit given its fast paced, 3 minutes is still pretty good. Another thing I'd like to add, But a small Japanese park called Lagunasia actually had one, however they ended up replacing it with a roller coaster, So I cant imagine them being excessively expensive for a park to just get rid of it. I do think theming efforts make up a big portion of the cost though, its labour intensive and takes quite a bit of planning, I mean black mamba at Phantaisaland had an $11,000,000 theming budget. Disney IMO manages to spend ridiculous amounts so I dont think they are the best example to go by in terms of cost predictions. I 100% agree. I would suggest to you Sonic 123488 that you actually ride some of the things you are suggesting, a lot of the things you are suggesting just seem random and dont explain how they would fit in MW. Zamperla volares are terrible rides, they are flying coasters, but there is such thing as a bad flying coaster you know, those rides are basically like being strapped in a sandwich toaster. Are you honestly saying you would rather a Volare than a Multi Motion ride? Also, volares are crappy short rides, they are only a bit over a minute long, which makes it a shorter ride than WWF, Scooby, Batman, LW, and even road runner. If you are having to repeat yourself, it means nobody is listening. And why are you obsessed with having a small footprint. MW still has plenty of space for big rides if it wants one.

Im pretty sure you don't. Previously the ride was known as Buzzsaw falls, originally it was an Premier Rides liquid coaster. In 2005 the ride was renovated, some of the original track was kept, though non of the water elements remained, it was converted to a launched coaster and an extensive twisted section was added at the start. The first 5 photos show the ride pre conversion, the rest post conversion.

Since when is powder keg a wet ride? Still I dont think MW nees another launcher for now.

^I dont think the problem with Superman is it's story, but rather the general lack of polish on the theming, and often a lack of foresight in what would be the best solution in many situations. Now, looking at an Australian installation It wouldn't necessarily be anywhere near $100 million. Another installation is Pharaohs Fury at Lotte world http://www.coasterforce.com/Pharoahs_Fury which cost closer to $60 million AUD, not bad considering the elaborate theming it has (and a track length of close to 1km). There are a number of other things to consider, Indiana jones can move a whopping 2500pph, but If it were an Australian park you could get away with a bit over a quarter of that capacity. The complex vehicles represent a big portion of the cost of the ride system so the less of them you need the better. Theming wise, It doesn't necessarily have to be the big elaborate temple themes you see at Disney, Leofoo and Lotte World. A cheaper theme can still be satisfying, I mean test track (Ignoring the queue theming) is pretty basic when you get down to it, just a whole lot of inexpensive road signs, cones and water barriers for the most part, with the whole show building kept fairly dark (which is an advantage in this case because people simply cant see blandness). The queue theming could be less elaborate too, I mean with Indiana jones it is just full of detail (too bad you rush through) and at the same time the whole queue is dug into the ground, you could get away with something less elaborate. Take scooby doo, great looking queue but probably not too expensive. The reason why I was leaning towards that stunt driving theme was basically for this reason, to reach the 'fully themed" state with this sort of theme would cost a lot less (and would probably be appealing to a lot of the revhead public that are drawn to motocoaster) I think it would be a given that the theming would be a bit of a step down from Disney and no better than what is currently on offer at MW though, if it were WWF or Scooby standard in terms of overall finish it would be fine by me. This is one attraction where the ride system is heavily responsible for the enjoyment. Even with Indiana jones there are simple painted back drops in some sections, but it more than makes up for it with some of the wild things that happen in these same sections. Another thing, WVTP have proven they can get good results whilst doing stuff far cheaper than the big boys, just look at stuff like Bermuda and its predecessor. Personally, I'm a bit over gimmicky coasters at the moment, I'd prefer to just stick with proven concepts you know are going to be fun.

After seeing a video on the Intamin website of their multi motion vehicles: http://www.ridetrade.com/rti/index.php?opt...9&Itemid=36 I have developed a love affair with these rides and am convinced that something like this would be perfect if it were themed to movie stunt driving. The ride could start off with a "training course" with things such as a slalom through cones where you tilt wildly from side to side, a rough section where you have to keep in control through gravel, and maybe a bit where you supposedly go up on two wheels from a ramp (so you would tilt right to one side) the ride would then progress, and you would then take part in filming of 'real' scenes with themed sets and special effects. Those vehicles can pull off some pretty cool tight turns and tilts, and they seem to have a fair bit of zip. Theming wise It wouldn't be too expensive, just have a big sound stage, and make the scenes look like sets, they could actually get away with having unthemed shed sections because its all part of the realism of being in a sound stage.

Well, competition would be stimulated a bit, but I mean Knotts berry farm has to compete with two Disney parks, but that hasn't really driven them to greatness, let alone gotten them to a level much better than most American theme parks.

Then post in an existing thread (like this one http://www.parkz.com.au/forums/in...?showtopic=3394 ), don't start a new one for just one little question.

They ended up going the same place this thread is going (Arundel Tip) Do you really need to start 4 threads in one night?

Yeah mate I don't need that pointed out to me. The loop is now gone from the ride for whatever reason, and that was the only modern example of a looping wooden coaster. Out of the 165 wooden coasters in the world, only 1 (which is now zero) has a loop. As Homer Simpson would say: "I like those odds" And anyway, I would hope WVTP would have more sense than to buy a woodie from RCCA