Bussy

Yay I can't wait for another boring trip report bagging out a theme park. "The Bus is now leaving for Yayah Creek, Northern Territory"

Good luck selling those items for those prices. S2S poster for $170, you must be joking. By the way are you the IT guy? "The Bus is now leaving for Price Cay, Queensland"

No, not on this subject anyway. No. What is the point in talking theoretically if in reality it is impossible to do? I have admitted to being wrong in the past but you obviously have overlooked that. Actually your proposal has been 'tested'. It is very similar to how the ride was operated when it first opened and I think you will find that when the ride dropped from 5 operators to 2 there was very little change in the capacity of the ride. What primary school? To me it looks like you have taken this subject very personally, take a chill pill and go have a lie down. I agree that they way that Wonderland operated was not the best. However the point I have been making is that there is the 'best' way to do it and then there is the 'real' way to do it. It is impossible to do it the 'best' way for reasons that I have stated in previous posts. Again that is how it should be but there is only one person who has control of the ride and that is the operator. They have to be 100% sure that everything is 100% safe before starting the ride and that includes heights, loose articles, other guest related issues and ride related issues. The operator may have confidence in the other staff at the ride but when it comes down to it, it's their job and most importantly the lives of guests on the line. I have always agreed that the 'shoes must be worn' rule was stupid, but the reason it was in place was to guard against public liability claims. Example, the cabin shears some metal off the ride during drop and the guests have to walk through it to get off. If they don't have shoes on they may have their feet cut but the shards of metal. "The Bus is now leaving for Sulky Alex Hill, NSW"

Ok thanks for clarifying that for me but to make things easier try using the same terms consistently. Can you explain that last sentence to me because I’m buggered if I can figure out what you were trying to say. I know you weren’t talking about the speed of the ride I was pointing out that you cannot always believe what is on them. Well shove this up your Bush Beast, the time on the sign was the freefall time and did not include the time in the braking section. If this supports you assumption it also shoots a very large hole in your capacity figures. If the ride is going to be dispatched with only 2 or 3 people on a cabin it reduces the capacity dramatically. Read that back and tell me how funny it is. First you say that you need to be explicit and then go on to admit that what you said was obscure. Loaders did not have anything to do with the cabins besides showing the guests which one they were sitting on. The only person that was allowed to check the harnesses and enable and dispatch the ride was, and lets get this clear, the operator, there was no ‘console’ operator, there was an operator and loaders that’s it. I beg to differ. There was one person at each ride who was ultimately responsible for height checks and that is the operator, if the operator suspects that a guest is under the height they have to check them even if they were checked by the parents, by the staff member outside the tunnel and by the staff member in pre-show. I often had arguments with guests that would last several minutes over height restrictions. The staff that would have been outside the tunnels or even in pre-show were inexperienced and therefore often unable to deal with the situation effectively, when that happened they would contact the operator who would try and solve the complaint. This was not a case of training but experience. The majority of complaints are dealt with by the operator not the supervisor or guest relations. If the complaint gets out of hand that was when the supervisor was called, guest relations was very rarely called to deal with guest complaints because the operator or the supervisor would resolve it before it got out of hand. What about people who kick their shoes off? If they do that you have to unlock the harnesses, tell them to put their shoes back on, argue with them about it , wait for them to put them on, lock them back in. It all takes time and happened on average every fifth cycle. You will never get 12 passengers on every cycle, the average would be around 10 so that drops your figure by over 100. Before you say “there should always be 12 on every cycle if the team is working effectively” remember that when you have a group of 3 people it is very hard to get a single person to fill that spot. Do you want to go back to school and learn about capitals and punctuation before you imply that I don’t comprehend English. Oh yeah make sure you replies are completely explicit otherwise I might not be able to understand what you mean. You know I might actually know what I am talking about, operating Space Probe for nearly 3 years seems to give me some insight into the operational considerations of the ride. “The Bus is now leaving for Permanent Water Camp Creek, NSW”

No not yet but there are several interested parties making offers on it. Are you talking about Demon? "The Bus is now leaving for Parties Well, Western Australia"

Jobe I haven't heard anything about Mega Drop going to Luna Park for the holidays but they are getting two rides for the duration of the holidays. Once the holidays are over they will make way for the installation of the other rides in the first quarter of the year. "The Bus is now leaving for Quartermaine Island, Western Australia"

Demon, as with all the rides were/are on the open market so anyone can buy them. Give them a call, make an offer and see what they say, you might pick up a bargain. "The Bus is now leaving for Dealym Green, South Australia"

Negotiations are still happening as there was another interested party vying for some of the same rides. When I have confirmation I will let you know. "The Bus is now leaving for Negoa, NSW"

Seeing as there is a wave of thread resurrections going on I thought I would resurrect thread 1. Apology accepted Richard. "The Bus is now leaving for Resurrection, NSW"

Wazza, I pretty sure I am the only ex-operator posting in this thread and if you had read what I said you would realise that I am not being cynical at all just realistic. If I don't know what I am talking about then something is really wrong but please don't let us stop you telling us how it really was because I would like to know. Why would we want to talk about our current jobs, unless they are in the industry, on a website all about theme parks? Please read my posts thoroughly before you make comments because you obviously haven't. Do you think that there was more than one type of operator for Space Probe? You were either trained as an operator, which meant that you could do everything, or you were trained as an 'unloader', which was actually a loader and was responsible for grouping, checking heights and opening the door to bring them into the launch area. There was no in-between you were either an operator or not. Ok let me shoot some cannon balls through your '64' magical number theory. The sign out the front never had the correct information on it, for one the speed of 120 km/h was off by about 30 km/h. There was a WorkCover certificate at the ride that stated the speed at 93 km/h, last time I checked WorkCover didn't get things like the speed of machinery wrong. Next and your biggest hole, is when you say that it wouldn't dispatch with the OTSR up, I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is not true as I witnessed Space Probe operating with the harnesses up on several occasions. You then say it wouldn't dispatch unbalanced, another un-truth. It wouldn't dispatch with too much weight on each cabin, the maximum was 350kg although the sign out the front said 400kg. You could dispatch it with 2 big guys on one side of a cabin no problem, yes the maintenance guys didn't like that but it was still possible. The button next to each cabin was not a dispatch button but an 'enable' button, basically if you weren't going to use a cabin you didn't enable it. You are kidding yourself if you think that there were only 2 or 3 complaints in a day, working in the department you did you should know better than that. Last but not least you 768 calculation is flawed, why did you multiply the number of passengers by the number of seconds taken? It should be number of passengers multiplied by the number of cycles per hour. Do you want to continue this argument? Because I am more than happy to as I know what I am talking about on this subject. But please feel free to keep trying. "The Bus is now leaving for Cannonball Rock, NSW"

No not American, Australian dollars which converts to about $1.3 million US. I guess you could say Visionland got a bargain. "The Bus is now leaving for Bargajoc Well, Western Australia"

Sorry to disappoint you all but Demon was sold to Visionland in Alabama for $1.7 million. I sent an email to Visionland asking if my information was correct and here are the responses to my emails. Do you guys want anymore proof? "The Bus is now leaving for Point Vision, Tasmania"

The smell was probably a combination of animal manure, the tip down the road and from people being sick when they saw the price of entry. "The Bus is now leaving for Sick Man Creek, Queensland"

I have been informed that Demon has been sold and will be removed from the site in the near future. "The Bus is now leaving for Sold Rocks, Western Australia"

Running 3 sides does not require 3 ops. Having 3 ops actually increases the risk of an accident and reduces efficiency. I don't know where you got the bit about it can't be done, but doing it that was is inefficient and increases the risk of accidents. You have contradicted yourself with that statement. First you say you understand how it worked and then go on to say that staff should be trained up to that level to encourage them to stay. Can you give me some more examples of stuff that that they could have done because I buggered if I can see anything else that can do in the spare 60-90 seconds that they had. I can tell you that the 'magical' number was nowhere near reality. What was the number? 600 or 700 from memory. That means 50 or 58 FULL cycles an hour which regardless of staffing was impossible due to the cycle time of the machinery. Let me break it down for you. Time going up: 30 seconds. Time down: 5 seconds. Time for catch wagon to come back down: 30 seconds. Time to get next group on, locked in and cabin enabled: 30 seconds. Add that all up and you get 95 seconds. Now put that back into the numbers I gave and now tell me that you can get the 'magical' number every hour. I haven't even taken into account time for rotation, guest queries/complaints, disputes over restrictions, time for disabled guests, etc, etc. Paul, no one is making you read what we type. "The Bus is now leaving for Twelve Hour Point, Tasmania"

It was Iron Wolf. Have a look here and here. "The Bus is now leaving for Rich Knob, Victoria"

*Takes deep breath and farts* Sorry Alex I was confusing you with GoBoi, my comments were directed to him so I take back my comments about your department. Do you think that just anyone was trained to operate the major rides? Because if you do you are very much mistaken. Most of the staff that operated Space Probe worked there for at least a year and had proven themselves as competent operators on smaller rides. It's like driving. You don't learn to drive in a B Double truck do you? No. You learn in a car and work your way up. What's the point of having a staff member at the entrance to the tunnel if there are 4 or more groups in the tunnels? What you have said proves my point about redundant positions. You say that there is plenty to do and there is no time to talk, how long do you think it takes to write '12' and look at 4 monitors? The operator should have been watching the cameras during the cycle but remember that most people have to ability to look and talk at the same time. Now look at the time from dispatch to unload, it's more like 60 seconds than 30. Yes the pre-show person is busy all the time but what about the other 2 or 3 in the launch area? Are seriously trying to tell me that you or anyone with the ability to speak would not do so? "The Bus is now leaving for Farthing Park, NSW"

Why would a ride op be annoyed with having guests in the park? They still get paid regardless of what the guests spend. It's just the same as when anyone went to Wonderland, if you went mid week in non peak time you got a very sweet deal, walk on every ride, pretty much stay on for as many rides as you like. Don't forget that kids are very powerful consumers. If they go to a place and they like it they will want to go back again but when they do they will take family and friends and all will be full paying customers. Think of these 'educational' excursions as forms of advertising because in essence that is what they are for Luna Park and all parks that do the same. "The Bus is now leaving for Dealwarraldi, NSW"

That's a bit harsh don't you think? Teachers work damm hard at what they do. Remember without them everyone would use spelling and grammar like some people on this site. I agree that these 'educational' trips are a great bludge for students and teachers and I know at Wonderland the first thing the kids would do was 'lose' their work sheets, be it 'drop' it in the lake or get it wet on Snowy or simply throw it in the nearest bin. "The Bus is now leaving for Teach Dragun Draiocht, South Australia"

There is no need for redundant positions on rides. Let’s take Space Probe as an example, one you go beyond 2 person op and go to 3, 4 or 5 it actually slows down the cycle time. If 3 person op was in operation the third person was at the entrance to the tunnels grouping and then waiting for a signal to send them through, by the time they go to the launch area 30-90 seconds had elapsed. If it was 2 person op the next group of people would be ready to come through the door as the previous group was leaving. What happens when 2 or more people get together? (No not that, not at work anyway, get your mind out of the gutter) They talk and that causes a loss in what? Concentration that’s what. I'm still waiting for some photos of staff uniforms. "The Bus is now leaving for Cockburn Gutter, Queensland"

Ok there are problems with what you have said. Mainly Space Probe VERY rarely had more than 2 'ops'. And when there was 2, 3, 4 or more 'ops' there was usually only one certified ride operator the rest were only trained to load/unload/queue. On the rare occasions that there was more than 1 certified ride operator they would rotate on a regular basis. This also goes for Demon, Snowy and Bush Beast. I agree and disagree that one person operating a ride is dangerous. On the agree side is with more than one person there, there is less of a chance to get bored and also there is someone else checking safety as well. On the disagree side there is more chance to get distracted, more chance of hearing a problem and less concentration. You cannot say that until you have worked in the industry. I enjoyed it immensely when I started and then went through a period where I couldn't give a crap and then I enjoyed it again. Some people can do a job well and may be happy but to people looking at them they would think differently, everyone is different and you can't judge a book by its cover. That **** is whacked. Sorry Richard but it is. Alex, I know what department you worked in at Wonderland and I would have to say that they were the worst of the lot when it came to attitude. The entertainment cast would walk around the park (very rarely mind you) and would come across very snobbish. Don't get me wrong I knew most of them and they were great people but when it came to interacting with guests one thing came in their way and that was their egos. "The Bus is now leaving for Ego Creek, Western Australia"

It actually had absolutely nothing to do with Wonderland and had everything to do with NSW State OH&S Legislation. And as I said before it had to do with the staff being provided with a safe working environment. I'm sure you will understand when I tell you that the reasons given to the public for the close were a load of crap. The only reason it closed is that it was time for Sunway to cash in on their investment. The Wildlife Park was in the perfect location in Sydney to capture the tourist market, which it did very well. The reason was what lies about 30 minutes west on the M4, the Blue Mountains, you can't tell me that the vast majority of tourists to Sydney don't go to the Blue Mountains, and what did they pass on their way there? That's right the Wildlife Park. A lot of the bus loads of tourists would stop for about 1 hour and pay around $20 per person plus get photos with koalas and buy plenty of merchandise. Yeah that’s all good and well but still doesn't explain why you wear lycra. Ok lets take 2 train operation on Bush Beast, if there are 2 trains there is a minimum of 2 persons operating. Regardless of how many people are operating the ride the trains can only be dispatched at certain time intervals. You could have 1500 people there to operate but the fact of the matter is that it is just as efficient with 2. Before you say about 'what about 1 operator' most of the time it was impossible to run 2 trains due to mechanical/electrical faults. Nothing went wrong, Sunway made and investment and it was time to cash it in. It is more important to rotate staff on large rides due to the size, speed, and number of people involved. Believe me if you are not concentrating 100% of the time something will go wrong. There was never an issue with staffing levels and staff were always rotated at least once a day usually more. Yes you would be enthusiastic at the start like most people are, that’s why they are employed in the first place, but after a while of guests constantly asking stupid questions and the repetitive noise and motion of the rides you start to loose enthusiasm. I haven't been to Dreamworld for about 10 years but am interested to know/see what their uniforms look like. Some pictures of ride operators, gaming staff, food staff and cleaners should be sufficient. "The Bus is now leaving for Foody, NSW"

There is still a problem with OH&S in regards to 'costumes' worn by staff. For rides it is obvious, they can get caught in the machinery. This also applies to cleaning staff. Yes they do use more than just a broom. But aside from that issue is the issue of the weather. If you remember the old costumes they were very heavy and cumbersome and if you know what the weather is like during summer out at the park you will understand what I am talking about. I don't know what were the attendances? Because I along with a few other people here would really like to know. But one thing is for sure is that the staffing levels and attendances during that period had nothing to do with each other. The pay rate back then was less than half what it was when the park closed and therefore meant that more staff could be employed. When you give me the attendance figures I will do the calculations. But the thing is that nothing is better done 'the old way'. Because if everything was done 'the old way' nothing would ever progress. But if there decisions lead Wonderland backwards surely that meant doing things 'the old way' and therefore was better. It was not Wonderland's management that decided to close the park it was the decision of Sunway's board. Read above for the answers to this question. I don't know about Queensland but in NSW the OH&S legislation states that the employer must provide a safe working environment. That means that the clothing provided must be suitable in all conditions. Are you serious? The Wildlife Park made more money than the rides part did, and the reason was simple, Asian tourists with wads of money and an insatiable appetite for Australiana. They started doing that and look where all the money went. I don't know what you were doing driving around there in the dark, but my guess is that you were looking for some nice tight lycra to wear. The Spiderman costume was kept in the administration building so you were wasting your time. That was my idea and it is the most practical. The Bush Beast was way too old and neglected and needed to be replaced. Anyone who wears lycra should be banned from this site and sent to a mental hospital. Have you ever done the same thing over and over and over again for 6 hours? If you have you will understand why it is an OH&S issue. It's like driving a car after a while you become tired and loose concentration and I think we all know what happens when that occurs. The staff at Wonderland were never stuck on the same ride for the whole day anyway. When they used the Space Probe jumpsuits the operators would get changed at lunch, and just before they stopped using them they just wore them while operating Demon. I think you will find that not many parks have staff on the same ride for the whole day and I know for a fact that quite a few actually rotate staff every hour, like Wonderland used to. If people get stuck on the same ride for the whole day it actually reduces there awareness of what is going on. Most of the people on this site have never worked in a theme park, let alone operated a ride so I don't know how you can say, with any conviction, anything that holds any truth when it comes to operational theme park issues. "The Bus is now laving for Conviction Bank, South Australia"

Why would you want to do all of that? Besides "two steel coasters of varying design, a flat, and a tower style ride" and moving HB/LWL everything else you have suggested is going backwards. Why move backwards when you should be moving forwards. Your ideas on staffing levels are ridiculously inefficient and negatively cost effective. There was a very good reason the 'cast' stop wearing those outrageously bad 'costumes' and that was that they are not practical due to various OH&S issues. I know what you said is your opinion and that’s ok, but going backwards and not really improving for the future is a bad thing. "The Bus is now leaving for Future Reserve, Victoria"

I just noticed that boycotta has gone mental and has edited all posts in this thread and replaced whatever was there with "n/a cannot show any personal info". Remember its 5c, virgin to virgin. So that will apply to the majority of people on this forum. "The Bus is now leaving for Northfield Mental Hospital, South Australia"