Gazza

Well, he didn't have anything to say back to the logical points made in the Motocoaster queue thread, so I wouldn't hold your breath for a response.

Re PixelPushed: Funny thing is, CA Screamin isn't that intense actually, it just goes on for ages, It is after all a Disneyfied thrill ride, so its not too bad, but it is indescribably fun to ride. You make a good point about the Music on Scooby Doo, I reckon that is half of the reason people love it so. The thing with onride music though, is that it forms a backdrop, of course you will mainly focus on the ride, but it gets into your head without you thinking about it. The best soundtracks are the ones that match the movements of the ride, which is something scooby doesnt do. I guess its something you really have to experience yourself, but its like how there are certain pieces of music that make the hair on your neck stand up. If you combine that sort of emotional response with what is already a sensory overload (A coaster) then the result is greater than the sum of its parts. While of course, it would be cool if you could build a B&M Looper indoors, fact is you'd need an absolutley massive building. Of course, you can take the flight of fear/rock n roller coaster approach and pack the ride into a building (which still ends up being pretty big anyway) by building a tight layout but then you basically end up with a ride full of turns...and the B&M loopers people seem to want are more based around a ride full of inversions (And if MW were say trying to market these aspects, a compact indoor ride would detract from this) Not to mention the fact your easily adding millions to the cost of the ride for a building. And Alex, I managed to find a clip with the original music, though i still have a preference for the current music, which is my absolute favourite ride soundtrack This has it, though it is an NL recreation someone has done, which is good because you can hear the music, and actually see the track layout properly to see how it matches.

Yeah, I thought I could see something like that, it appeared to be bitumen though, so maybe it was like the ones that have those little billy carts you have to steer, like in Queenstown NZ or Sentosa Island in Singapore.

I was up that way today and decided to drop in. I got the impression of it being a really nice little park, nicer than Luna Park anyway. It was very clean and well maintained, and didn't have that 'dodgyness' to it, very tasteful landscaping and structures...special mention goes out to the beer keg urinals. There seemed to be enough people there though, so each ride had a dedicated op. They seem to have undergone a recent rebranding (see their website) and they have a yet to be named dog mascot. In particular, it would be quite a good place for younger families with kids unwilling to go on the bigger rides at the GC parks (Since it has the wristband system, so its basically like only having the looney tunes village or sesame st beach or whatever) I didn't go on everything, but I did go on the Rock N Roll Rebel, The Wild Mouse, Mozzi Musta, The Simulator and the Ferris Wheel (Didn't have a whole lot of time, wouldn't have minded playing a round of mini golf, or finally going on a pirate ship) The rock n roll rebel was pretty cool, with its varied lighting effects that would change throughout the ride (So at the start it was flashing lights, and then it would change to having lasers, and then it would change to the disco ball etc) The mouse, well its a crazy as all the other timber ones out there...that transition off the top of the lift and first turn is brutal. One thing that made this cool was that it wasn't just dips, but it had actual hills with a little bit of air...due to the seating position where you sit like you'd sit in a bathtub, your legs would fly up. The ferris wheel was good for taking photos, though it only goes around about 3 times The simulator is just one of those ones you see at the shows, but the op would let people pick the film (from a list of about 12) I managed to get "Wet 'n' Wild Water slide' and it was basically a stitched together POV of those slides at WnW in Orlando that have the hexagonal tower. Mozzi Musta was my first tilt a whirl, they have pretty cool ride movements freely spinning this way and that, but towards the end it managed to establish itself into a very fast non stop spin one way that didn't stop till the end of the cycle. It will be good to see how this place develops in time, If they have the funds, it would be nice to see them look at what else they can get for the same money, as say a new flat ride...that hill to the side and back of the park would be great for a Wiegan Tobbogan Run or Alpine coaster. Though if they were going for another flat, I wouldn't object a Flying Scooters, I think it would really suit the park, plus I wouldn't mind trying one.

Haha thanks Alex. I just really do have a love affair with musical coasters, I mean have a look at how well it is done on (In particular the music on the launch, the lift hill, and the airtime hills near the end) Perhaps this sort of approach could be taken, The soundtracks might not be specific songs licensed as they have done on hollywood dream, but rather composed pieces that match the ride movements, in various genres (Rock, Pop, Electronic, Orchestral etc) Also, on theme nights (Eg Haloween, Looney Tunes Christmas Party etc) they could run a version of the ride with themed music. I remember one complaint about Superman was their weak attempt to appeal to the youth market with that www.supermanescape.com.au, this sort of ride however would absolutely lend itself to this type of advertising. Think about all the bus shelter ads to you see for things like Ipods, and the gig posters stuck over them. Another ad for it I had in mind was there could be someone in a car going around to pick up mates from their houses to head out to a concert, but progressively, each person getting into the car would be dressed entirely differently as to suggest they arent going to the same concert....but of course it would turn out they were actually going to MW to ride the new coaster.

After seeing things like the Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit at Universal Orlando and Led Zeppelin: The ride at Hard Rock Park (As well as riding stuff like Rock n Roller Coaster) I have become more and more convinced this could be the theme of their next thrill coaster....There seems to be a consensus that a B&M multi looper is the way to go (And if ASW ends up going ahead, and they build that dive machine that might discourage them from building the same at MW) so that leaves the choices to it being a sitting coaster, a stand up coaster, and a floorless coaster. I'd probably eliminate sitting coaster since it lacks the 'gimmick', and I'd eliminate the Stand Up since they cant do Zero G Rolls (Building a B&M looper without a Zero G Roll is almost sacrilege) so that leaves the floorless. But the ride could include a headrest speaker system like on Led Zepplin, and the custom track selection system like on Hollywood Dream. There are a number of advantages to a music themed ride, for starters it has more universal appeal since music is something everyone everyone can relate to in some way, secondly it is more appealing to women then say a superhero themed ride, and thirdly, the theming does not need a whole lot of moulded stuff like rocks or whatever to make it work. I could imagine having a snazzy looking building to house the queue and station , themed to be like a concert venue. The queue would be indoors at ground level, and the station would be up higher, in the same space, as if it is up on a stage (So i guess similarities could be drawn with how Supermans station and queue is) So its a bit like the people queuing are the audience, and the station and train is the focal point up on the stage. The area would of course, have music playing, a light show (Get Clint to do it), plasma screens alternating between the safety video, and music visualisations) And the area around the 'stage' would have banks of big speakers, all the rigging etc (I'm no expert in how these sorts of things should look), to get up to stage level, the queue would actually go under the stage, then up a set of stairs to the loading chutes on the other side (That way the crowd of people at the loading gates aren't blocking the view of the action up in the "station/stage" to the people queuing below, since they are on the far side) The goal of the queue would be to make it a fun place to be, and to really get you into the mood of the ride. The section of queue passing under the station and up the stairs would be like the back of house/green room areas of the concert venue. In here, signage explaining the track selection system, and the artists on offer would be on the walls, but they would be in the graphical style of a concert poster. Once you are in the station, you would board the train, and the train would have a sleek, glossy look to them, perhaps using that paint that changes colour depending on how light falls on it) You would pick the sound track from the device mounted on your restraint, and lock in that selection. As the train dispatches, speakers in the station would play the sound of a crowd cheering (like when a band takes to the stage and starts playing) and at the same time the speakers in your head rest will start playing your chosen song. Depending on the layout of the coaster, there is often a u turn between the station and where it engages the lift hill (See this pic for an example) This section could be enclosed, and would have a light/laser show happening in there. You would emerge into daylight, and the coaster would do its thing (IMO a layout about the scale of Batman at SFNE seems about the right scale for MW) At the end of the ride, you would pull into the enclosed brake run, where another cheer would be played out over speakers. After unloading, the exit ramp would lead you into a shop selling music memorobilia, CDs and all other sorts of merchandise. There would also be a mini arcade in the same space, but it would have only music related games (DDR, the one where you play the drums, the one where you spin turntables etc) The music choices on offer would be limited to 5 tracks or so, and would cover a few genres to keep everyone happy. They could also periodically change the tracks to keep it fresh. As for advertising it, I keep imagining this ad which shows a mundane situation of a couple in a car, changing the radio station back and forth, unable to decide, the ad then ups the tempo, and shows them on the ride, pulling down the restraints and a closeup of picking the tracks, then it cuts to showing the ride in action, and at the end of the ad is a tagline emphasising the muscial nature of ride and the fact you can pick the music.

Yeah, it does, but I dont see the need for an RFID system, which would be more complex and expensive, not to mention the environmental impacts and wastefulness of people disposing of them after just a day. It makes sense for things like Go Cards, since they need to be durable, and have to be able to be able to call up data at odd locations without relying on a connection to a central network, as well as having a rewritable memory to keep track of the credit you have on it. Also, I'd personally not want to pay $8 for what should be a free or low cost service, hence each barcode being entitled to a set number of free uses, so at least people get a fair go. The advantage of using park tickets is that guests already carry them, and they already have an identifier on them in a barcode, and don't need to have a rewritable memory. Disney have already demonstrated the way they can be used as a tool with their fastpass system, and of course WnW with their splash cash system.

I think Richo is making sense. A live show, like other forms of media like TV shows, films etc can't just come down to a formula of more money equalling a better show. How many times have there been big budget movies with whiz bang effects that are absolute crap because of poor scripting, on the other hand, how many films are there that captivate and charm the audience without relying on a huge budget? The same thing is in play here. They might be able to spend huge amounts on spectacular stunts, but if the scripting and set up of the show is poor, and the actors dont have the talent then you can have a flop. With a roller coaster on the other hand, more money does pretty much equal a better ride since it is simple to get the manufacturer to just add more elements, make the drops bigger, make the experience last longer, make the theming higher quality, all of which just keep adding to the experience. Reread his post..... "This isn't the sort of attraction ", Now, one thing I thought of and have been meaning to post, but I think by the sounds of it, there is greater potential to keep the show fresh...since PA was heavily story driven, changing the stunts isn't really possible without rewriting a lot of the script. With this new show, it wouldn't be hard to slip new stunts in periodically and remove others.

This is where we were talking about lockers and the like wasn't it? SFMM have started installing lockers on its major rides that use barcode scanners: To me, this finally seems like the best way of doing things. However, I think there could be other ways a barcode scanning system could be implemented. Everybody would be carrying a park ticket or a season pass, and this could be the key to locker usage. Since the barcode on each one is unique, there is a means for the system to identify users in a way (Not who they are of course, just that they are carrying a particular ticket) Hence, they have a way of regulating usage. One of the reasons stated for Superman's locker policies is that making them free could lead to people over using them. Perhaps then each park ticket, per day, could have a certain number of complementary locker uses tied to it (That way, they cant be accused of making you pay extra to ride rides). When you scan, that ticket number goes into the system at that rides set of lockers and establishes a count, and each use knocks one of the count, and when you hit zero you have to start paying. Of course, other options are avaliable in how they regulate it, and what rules they want to apply. Using your park ticket would also speed up the delays of people entering pins and using an slow touch screen interface. Instead you just scan, and the system knows what to open. No brains needed.

Yeah, it is indeed still standing, It's walkable from my place so I can grab photos of how it looks now at some point if people are interested.

Just another little thing, why dont you draw a diagram of how it should be set up, since after all, you have such a clear idea of how it could be improved? How long till we have another debate about another weird issue at DW......

I'd personally say half the problem is that trains spend too long stacking in the unloading station (thats if they are making the effort to run two trains) hence the queues not moving fast enough. But if its that much of a problem, why cant they set up those removable posts that can be used to set up queue areas. I know there is a proper term for these, but basically there are metal things in the ground the posts slip into, and then the posts are connected with clip on chains, and the posts and chains are kept in a kit that cast members can use to quickly add queuing space if it is needed. Memorably, I saw this in action when I was at Disneyland 5 days after Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage opened...The masive 4 hour queues were kept in control by setting up a giant overflow queue that extended onto the main paths, and stretched all the way around the lagoon in a giant switchback. As you can see, the system is cheap and lightweight, and all Disney rides have the metal things in the ground out the front, so should a particular ride experience a high demand all of a sudden, cast members can just run in and make queue space in a matter of minutes. If the ride can take 700 pph and runs for 8 hours a day, it means it can process 5600 a day, so if 50 people ask a question that is just 0.89% of the total riders needing help. Of course its going to be worse than the Claw because the claw offers the same experience (in the eyes of the public) no matter where you sit, Motocoaster on the other hand offers more options for riders. It pretty easy for me, you just keep walking and walking, keeping the handrails either side of you. It might zig zag around a bit, but if you keep on following it you get to where you need to be. Oh well bugger me, I would have never guessed you get surrounded by people in a big line. In any case, the queue just inches along anway, so you just follow the person in front of you. No its not, you line up, and then when it comes close to when you board, you pick from one of 3 choices? How is that complicated? I have been on many rides where this is the case (In particular the Busch and Universal Parks) If people are getting confused, maybe just install new signs that better clarify what each queue is for. Yes they are entirely separate issues. Confusion just relates to the adequacy of signage. Queue length just depends on how quickly the ride can churn through people. Are you trying to tell me confused people make lines longer I don't really have a problem with the queue setup, it was clear for me where i needed to go when i arrived in the station. The only thing I would have done differently is had the 'normal' rows split off into loading chutes, rather than having an op manning a gate, and then sending people to each row. I would have also kept the SRQ separate to the sidecar one, and had it just feeding into the back of the station. But, as it is, it still works. The main issue is how they are running the ride itself. Dont know why they bothered with separate stations anyway, they are never ready to load, even when the empty train rolls foward.

They said "Australias Greatest", not "Worlds Scariest". I mean, if you were going to take the concept art at face value you would say the coaster will also be built without proper supports. I mean, its pretty obvious the artist was trying to draw Sheikra, but didn't draw 100% correctly....looks like it was done by the same artist who does the MW park maps, look at how they drew LW on that Still, if the coaster is the type depicted, there is no doubt it would be Australias greatest. $400 Mil for MW back in 1992? Are you sure? One thing I am interested in is the effect this will have on Luna Park. It is a different competitive situation to the GC because there you dont have a single park which is drastically inferior to the rest (I'm pre-empting the arguments against DW, but at the end of the day, it is still is on the same playing field) On the other hand, Luna Park does have its tacky reputation, and is hardly a full days attraction, so they are going to have to be creative to stay viable. I guess the effects were less severe in a comparable situation with WL versus LPS, I mean LPS was closed half the time, and wonderland never did anything anway (Big Dipper and Space Probe seem to be the only attractions built in completion) Another point I'd like to make, but already there are people opposed to the idea of an animal theme park, and I'm sure they could have avoided some image problems if they had picked something nicer than "African Safari World"....no matter how much you love theme parks, it's hard not to get a sort of mental image of a tacky place. Though, while I'm here, I dont think public opposition would really be enough to derail this anyway, despite the negativity floating around. I mean, local nimbys dont really have a case, its on the opposite side of the freeway to residential areas, and surrounded by farmland, so it wont put traffic on local streets, noise of course wouldnt be a concern since they would be keeping the volume down to keep the animals happy regardless. Visual concerns are again not valid because its too far away from residential areas for people to see, and motorists driving cant complain because they are driving through industrial areas anyway. People can complain that they dont want the zoo turned into a theme park, but if the project has conditional support of zoo management, then they have little recourse on a number of the issues related to it because they don't own it....after all, if the owners/experts are satisfied, what else needs to be said? I'd be willing to bet that the people complaining about this and saying things like "its tacky" and "We don't want to turn into the gold coast" would be people that wouldn't visit theme parks anyway, so its not going to affect them either way. In any case, from reading one of the artices in the Age, people from Village (management etc) have said they have a connection to Melbourne (Given they started out with just a drive in) and have wanted to bring a theme park to Melbourne for a while. Even if they couldn't do this, the will from both the company, and the government is there, so they can always do some sort of other proposal in the future that is less touchy. Discount Lion Safari "Do not feed the animals, do not allow animals in the car, do not make eye contact with the animals....."

How? You were both talking about different things? In the first instance jjuttp was talking about the possible negative effects (Eg disruptions to jobs, danger to animals, delays to construction projects, damage to rides) On the other hand Spotty was talking about safety training and the logistics of evacuations. They are both completely different aspects so how can somebody be going into more detail when they are talking about something different. And why are you getting all at him? He is allowed to write what he wants. Were you embarrassed he had written something better than you?

^That made no sense whatsoever.

^Bingo Joz. The park already appears to have a very solid lineup right off the bat...easily equal to the much praised MW (I think I spotted a top scan above the loop on the dive machine) Add to that we can expect WVTP standard theming, and the result will be an excellent park. I think the mention of the park rivalling Disney is just your typical Herald Sun sensationalism (They are a bit like the Today Tonight of the newspaper world...though maybe not THAT bad) and a way of getting people hyped up, I mean it was just a couple of weeks ago they were saying about the Australia Zoo being in the Disney league. I mean you can go quoting 3 Bil budgets for Disney parks, but they put far more R&D into their attractions and trialling to get things perfect, and do a lot of stuff in house, not to mention each of the attractions is far more elaborate than anything that would be built here. I mean, Disney will throw down $100 mil on a major attraction, sometimes more. Here, our most expensive one ever was $20 Mil, so well still get a big of bang for our buck.

I just realized, Yosamite Sam is the wrong guy for this, It should have Elmer Fudd as the central character given he was the one doing the hunting in the rabbit/duck hunting season episodes.

I have done a high res flat scan in all its 3Mb glory if people want to hurt their eyes trying to pick out details.

^Haha, thats actually a really cool idea (Especially the alternating sign). I sort of feel that interactive dark rides are better for kids...of course the ride probably wouldn't involve people shooting at bugs or daffy (unless you want to make kids cry), maybe the ride could involve a plot where guests chaperone bugs and daffy through an adventure by foiling Yosamite Sam, eg shooting at a beehive to rile up the bees so they attack sam, shooting at a rope bugs has set up to drop an anvil in a booby trap on sam, shooting at a barrel so the water pours out drenching sam, shooting some sort of large inanimate object along so bugs and daffy can sneak along behind it etc.

So you are saying it will wrap around and go under? Well, keep us posted if something substantial happens, i can head down and check it out.

NZ Park? Did i miss something?

From what I have heard they have done some digging, so that the jet ski lake extends further under the bridge across to Corkscrew. Can anyone confirm this (Joz?), since it could be related to the work going on for the new ride.

But the thing to consider is that there is a whole market of people who don't go to theme parks that all, or not very often because its so far away and there are too many side expenses that need to be paid for to make it possible. It is probably a bit of an alien concept to us being a community of park fans, but there would be people in Melbourne who have never been to a proper theme park. Even for those who do go, it can only be done infrequently...I mean I remember visiting the GC parks in 1998, and then WL at the end of 2003, and it wasn't until the end of 2005 that I was able to visit the GC again, and this is coming from a coaster enthusiast! (Thankfully I'm able to make trips more often now) If the park gets the majority of visitors from the local market, the way I see it, WVTP are effectively getting money out of a market (Victorians) more often than they currently can. Furthermore, its inching a park a bit closer to South Australians and Tasmanians, so I think it will pick up those markets a bit too. Give it some time, but Melbourne could become a theme park trip alternative. If people are after fun in the sun, then of course the GC will always be the one, but If Melbourne ends up getting this safari park, and people see the southern star, and adventure park gets its bum into gear and presses on with its water park ambitions, and Lindsay Fox does likewise with Luna Park then the option is there for people soley interested in rides.

Ta for the pics, here is what I could figure out, lets just hope, in the case of the dive machine at least, that this is accurate. Yeah, it is a blatant rip off of Busch Gardens, but it has a dive machine so I'll forgive them just this once.

Im hoping between now and whenever this place opens they drop the name...its probably inevitable (Dreamworld Water Park anyone?) but African Safari World just sounds so plodding. I'd think though that it is just an indicator of the format (A park based on land animals with rides, rather than say a park with sea animals and rides, or a park based on a film studio with rides) I'm personally leaning more toward the Busch format given the reference to high thrill rides, I don't think the Busch format is too hard to do, the rides are nicely themed, but it isn't over the top.