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ok just added numbers to oyu post to awnser. 1. Basically to make money, if you look at the top 10 parks in the world 8 of them are disney parks, and the first non-disneypark is no.6 uinversal studios japan, most parks know they wont beat disney but its a buisness they all are there to make money (and do!) source:Amusement Business and Economic Research Associates (post showing the top 10 from AB over at mouseinfo.com posted by darkbeer- http://www.miboards.com/forums/showpost.ph...41&postcount=32) 2. Easily! I'm a sharholder in Disney and just got the 2004 annual report Disney parks and Resort divison made in revenue last year 7.8 BILLION largest percentage of that was was from WDW, so they can easily captilize from building a $100million dollar attraction that will just bring in more deep pocketed tourists to WDW. Disney always spends major bucks on attractions Mission Space cost a cool $500 Million! and they always turn a massive profit. i cant think of a ride added to a disney park that cost less than $20million (pooh at disneyland cost $40million and if youve ridden it youd wonder where the hell the money went.) (barr the carney rides in DCA inparidise peir section) 3. ok i peronally dont have experience but my uncle works for disney parks and resorts in the head offices in burbank and travels to them all frequently (currently in hong kong at the site of the new disneyland) Basically every disney park gets a budget for these things goes into approval in burbank, animal kingdom needs everest it is lacking rides and this is on a way to help it come a full day park. and simply they can spend this kind of money cause the money will come back from guests this is a park that gets 7.5 million + guests a year. Simply put it makes more money than WB and this is an investment they will see returned with in 1-2years. and the detail in this ride and effects is goign to be amazing! Thats were the money is going, into track, structure, themeing, landscape effects etc etc 4. Expedition Everest the track is alot longer than scooby, and isnt a building its in a man made mountain with show scenes inside it (kinda like the matterhorn but on a much larger scale! huge it will be), and the mountain at its peak will be 199ft (200ft + structurs must have airplane warning lights on them thats why disneyin florida wont build ride stuctures higer than199ft, tower of terror is 199ft in florida too.) and to agree with others, yes its the imagineers that make it happen(the pure themeing and story etc) they are the best in the field wth the right budget they can make the most amazing attractions there are. hope i helped

I am amazed that you found Disney to be this way.I went to Disneyland Paris and was simply amazed.Every single thing placed in the exact right spot,every little detai done magnificantly.First of all,Space Mountain has 2 inversions.The theming is excellent,and it was a very smooth ride.You must have gone there a while ago because it was excellent when we went.Pirates is much better then Bermuda....the amount of anamatronics in there is amazing.How many other rides do you come across have a whole movie made out of them?The reason for kiddie rides is obviously beacuse it's a family park....I could go on and on....also alex,I can't agree morewith what you said about Disney making rides in that way.

At the risk of being flamed, seriously flamed... I would like to express my own opinion on this Disney thing, I suppose to some extent in support of those who are claiming we have some "Disney-standard theming" here in Australia. I went to Disneyland Paris last year and I was generally unimpressed. It was the only theme park we went to on ouir travels that we (kids age 11 and 14 and myself) were pretty much indifferent about. At the risk of sounding like I'm whinging (which I suppose I am), I'll now launch into a diatribe of explanation as to why this was so.... While typing this I have had to refer to the website as the majority of the rides were pretty much unmemorable. The customer service was pretty ordinary, I have never been treated in an Australian theme park with the indifference that we got there. For example, most of the staff spoke only a nominal amount of English, some tried hard to help and be understood, some didn't. The intro to Honey I shrank the Audience" was in French, no explanation on how to use the headphones so I missed 5 minutes while sorting out all 3 of us. The French soundtrack was so loud we could hardly hear our english sountrack. Theming: even the 11yo said it was "gay", it was really silly but I thought it was good 3D. I don't think the 360 degree theatre had English in the headphones, though we wasted another 5 minutes trying to work out if it did. Good movie though, despite being in French. Theming: what theming? Star Tours was OK, much like Batman we thought. Space Mountain was OK, but we found it rough and also were disappointed that no-one would tell us what the ride was like and 11yo hated it as I'd have predicted if anyone had told us it had so many inversions and Gs. Theming: don't really remember. Pirates of the Caribbean was OK but in our opinion not as interesting a ride as Bermuda Triangle (though those aliens are pretty dated and lame). We're no experts on animatronics, though, just 3 ordinary people who like rides (and we don't usually do 6 theme parks a year, either, usually just one). Orbitron is low-themed flat ride, thumbs up. Peter Pan was a very cute family suspended ride with nice effects but nothing extraordinary, don't think there was a story apart from flying. There were LOTS of rides aimed only at the littlies which we resorted to when we ran out of biggies rides and had done Big Th Mtn 5 or 6 times. Theming on these was mild to average, nothing worth mentioning. Big Thunder Mtn was similar in theming to Dreamworld's Eureka Mine but a much better coaster. Theming of all the above rides was, IN MY OPINION, no better than a similar selection in Australia. However the following few stand out: Nautilus was an excellent walk-through, awesome squid. Better than Harry Potter. Phantom Manor was of exceptional standard and one of the few rides I thought was themed really well, though we were told off for trying to open the door as no signs said "wait here" and we were really confused as to where the ride was. Robinsons House was very good, theming simple but top notch. Indiana Jones- disappointing (see my previous post) though not a bad ride and the set is very visually effective. As I've previously said, I'm not really one for theming, but I really can't see how you can say that the theming if Disneyland overall is better than Movieworld or DW. My experience is tainted by poor customer service, but trying to be objective, I still fail to see a vast deiiference except in the few cases mentioned. Maybe Disneyland Paris is letting the Disney side down? At least I can now say I've been, and riding Dumbo and the teacups (fulfilling a lifetime dream) was worth the visit, as was the multiple rides on Big Thunder Mountain (the best ride by far at DL Paris). OK, now I brace myself for the onslaught...

Movie World is Movie World. That's really all there is to say. Richard, I have to say I agree, Disney has been the best park in the last 50 years. But whats to say another park can't overtake that status? I couldn't disagree more with a statement like "no park will ever match Disney". And Alex, the answers you gave are missing the point entirely. (I am not just saying this because of what happened earlier with the whole argument about screens - I do respect what you have to say). Usually businesses are in business to make a profit. This profit can be maximized if you’re the best. There could be ten shops on the same street as you that do exactly what you do, but everyone comes to you, because you’re simply the best, better than anyone. Imagineers are only people with a vision. That same vision can be shared by people outside the Disney network.

To touch on what Richard has said and to answer another question as well, Other parks out there are not as good as Disney, and yet they ARE still in business - why? several reasons: 1) Disney cannot have a park in every state and territory of every country in the world. Its just not possible. Disney spends millions and millions on their parks are their rides. it would cost them a fortune to do, and the end result would be a loss in traffic to each park - because the travellers from interstate and international would just go to their own park. How many people would go to Disneyland, if we had a Disneyland in Australia? 2) Disney's culture is of "the most Wonderful Place on Earth". Its a kids fantasyland, fairy tales coming to life right in front of your eyes. Six Flags and Paramount and Universal and all the rest are there because they are delivering something that Disney doesn't deliver in its classic theme parks - whirling twirling spinning spewing duck and dive full-speed top fuelling Adrenalin Rush. Disney INVENTED the theme park. Until Disney came along, they were AMUSEMENT parks. rides with simple names, like "the big dipper" and "ferris wheel" and "giant drop". A Theme Park creates an illusion. its no longer the "giant drop" but the "Space Probe". It asks you to believe that this freefall tower, like every other freefall tower out there, is ACTUALLY an earth station transmitterreceiver for Ether Transmissions received from Deep Space. It then takes you inside, where a Seven.Net Reporter - Adam Walters reports to Seven.Net News Reader Ann Sanders that the transmission which caused the infiltration was an alien virus like organism of unknown origin... and so on and so on. Theme Parks are about taking an ordinary ride, like a boat flume, a wild mouse coaster, or freefaller, and creating a story, a look and a feel that gives a person the opportunity to suspend reality, and believe that this freefall tower is an inter-world probe. that this flume is a cruise boat on the hunt for bugs bunny, and that this wild mouse is in fact a space vehicle about to be launched from a space station and into the stars. Disney has 50 years experience over most other operators who wish to set out to copy their model. But like Richard said before - the one difference between a Warner Bros, a Universal, and a DISNEY attraction (besides money) is the Imagineers. I would like to see Warner Village build a ride, any ride (indoors) that they like, give the same ride and budget to a team of imagineers, and see the difference in the two. but thats in a dream world... oh well.

ads086, I'm curious to know if you've been to any Disney parks around the world. If there's a perception (among enthusiasts or otherwise) that Disney parks are better, it's because for 50 years they well and truly have been. I think that though financial reasons are the most prominent reasons for no other parks attaining the "Disney level", there are many more, which bubble down to Walt Disney's own quest for perfection, an attitude that is thankfully carried on (as best it can be) by Imagineering, a department at Disney consisting of true leaders of their respective industries who bring things to life. Disney is Disney. That's really all there is to say. I have a true love for their parks, because they are as close to perfect as theme parks come. I don't expect Warner Bros. Movie World, Universal Studios or any other park to be as good. That's not to say I don't love these parks, but there is no use comparing parks which at the end of the day are targeted at different people, and trying to be their own thing.

Adam, im loving your name. Its awesome mate. Although I disagree entirely with it, it's an interesting statement. If no park will ever match Disney, then why are they in business? To be the second best park in the world? Yea, exactly! Disney are spending 100 million on Expedition Everest, how can you possibly capitalize from that? Can anyone, who has experience in the field, please tell me why Disney are spending $87 million more than what was spent on Scooby Doo? Is it a bigger track (it's using Vekoma's new ride system)? A bigger building (I'm not sure how big the mountain is going to be)? Thanks in advance.

That sounds very similar to the pre-show for Space Probe. In my opinion, an evacuation style theme for a ride would only be good if it was a tower that used compressed air to force the gondola up the tower, rather than one where you were slowly hoisted up. I think the thing that sets disney apart from everyone else is that their theming matches the story they are trying to tell. Also, a lot of disney stories are told to children while they're growing up, so when they get to the park they know some of the stories already I think the biggest thing holding other parks back from achieving Disney level is funds. If parks had a larger budget to spend purely on theming and atmosphere, they could achieve close to Disney standards And one final thing, and this is only my opinion, so if you dont agree, please dont take offence. It has been said that no park will ever match Disney, and that Disney is above every other competitor. I personally think this is because of the perception that Disney is better than others. Whilst this may be true at the moment, if we maintain that perspective then we dont objectively judge a park against Disney because we have this pre-conception that Disney must be better. So Disney is better, at the moment, but it may not always be. Again, only my opinion, if you disagree Im sure your gonna say something, but please dont take offence as there was none intended -Adam

Pirates is constantley refurb, but not really had any major upgrades purley because it doesnt need it. I mean the boats have been changed and the outdoor queue entrance has changed. The Auctioneer AA(audio animatronic) is the most sophisticated and updated AA in the world. everytime walt disney imagineering (WDI) develop a new AA process/system they test it out on the auctioneer at disneyland. Other changes happened in the 90's because of P.C. a scene where piarates are chasing women is changed to them chasing food. (can only hope it gets changedback like the guns came back to the jungle cruise) Pirates is the ULTIMATE family dark/themed ride it is the benchmark for all other boat dark rides around. A true classic that has stood the test of time. It fully immusres youin the story and takes you away. on jimhillmedia.com there is a story about therumor of putting in a nighttime changeover in pirates interesting read.

Sorry Rabid, I have to disagree with you there. Bermuda has certainly been modelled on disney standard, but as Richard has said in the past, along with many others, Warner Village, and a lot of other well themed attractions are very good... even Universal good... But Disney is Disney and Nothing Compares. Bermuda is good, but I think through lack of maintenance, it has deteriorated. I never saw it when it opened (we came through in 1994 when it was being refurbed) but my first ride on it didnt impress me. the theming on it would probably have been an Australian first, but it still would not have come close to an Imagineer.

Bermuda is Disney Standard for sure just look at the sets inside the building to see this. Now Cyclone is Six Flags theming you know like Scream built over bits of road or carpark.

It depends what park you compare it too.By that I mean SDCS is obviously alot better themed then Mullholand Madness.But for most Disney rides I don't think SDSC is as well themd.Neither is Bermuda.

Yea I am also looking forward to seeing how Superman is themed. I would like to see an interactive / entertaining que area. And now back to the real discussion… The reason this thread was started was to debate the issue as to whether Disney level theming could be achieved in Australia (in reply to wonderbus2003's post that said its not possible for an Australian park to have "Disney theming"). I said that Scooby has "disney theming" but not many agree with me. Fair enough. You are all open to your own opinions . This then got me thinking about Sea World (another Australian park) and their Bermuda Triangle adventure. Who would agree that Bermuda Triangle has "disney level theming"? Who doesn't agree? Why? Can anyone think of a pioneering ride / attraction in an Australian park that has earnt “Disney level” recognition?

Thanks for getting back on track guys. Also I cant wait for theming of superman to unfold, from some of the stuff I heard at the staff closing of movie magic this could be one of the best themed rollercoaster ever in the Thrill area. (disney doesnt count ) Also there is a big City set being built at the studios next door for superman and the reason its being built up here was fox studios in Sydney was to small for this one set for Superman, Fox will still do all the inside stuff. so it will be intresting to see if this set ever becomes part of the ride only time will tell I guess.

ones ive ridden would go in this order. Journey To The Centre of the Earth (Tokyo Disney Sea) Indy (Tokyo Disney Sea) better then the other disneys indy's Scobby Doo (WBMW) Indy (Anaheim Disneyland) Space Mountain (Tokyo Disneyland) Space Mountain (Anaheim Disneyland) Matterhorn (Anaheim Disneyland) Eureka (Dreamworld) Calico Mine Train (Knotts Berry Farm) Mine Train (Chessington England) and thats all I can think of that Ive ridden for now.

Alex man, he asked a question, and Richard answered it. Nothing more, nothing less. If your going to go around the boards claiming that he had a go at you, make sure he's actually done it first. In the mean time, can we drop this stupid screen stuff already? Don't bother bringing it up again because its tiresome, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you have an opinion that is based around one element, from one ride, from one park, then don't bother posting in this thread ok? If you have an opinion on the quantitative themeing efforts of Disney Vs Movieworld, then please get stuck in, but don't get all hung up on what are (at best) pointless details.

I remember hearing something about Big Brother being at Dreamworld for at least another 2 or 3 seasons, so 05, 06 and maybe 07. While the Big Brother house is a bit of a waste of space, it brings in crowds. Big Brother was the first reality TV show in Australia and they still manage to get good ratings. Because of the popularity a large amount of people attend the eviction shows, and quite a few of them travel great distances to be there. Many I would expect would make a day of it and go to the park before the show. Re: Disneyland-Dreamworld comparison I just re-read the article and it does not say in there they are trying to be like Disneyland. All it says is the MLT is following the successful business pattern that Disney has done by creating accomodation at the park

Well said joz . Alex, I cannot see why you are saying that a simulator would be nothing without a screen... Well, I did some research and I found that simulators in Disneyland, Universal and Movie World all seem to have screens, interesting... Since all parks have screens on their simulators we cannot say that one park is better because it has a screen. They all do. Also, the term 'simulator' means: So if a simulator, such as the Batman simulator at Movie World, was to simulate the experience of riding a space-age craft, then not only does the system need to move as would this particular craft, but also provide video and audio entertainment in order to simulate this action. So, a ‘simulator’, without a screen, is technically not a simulator. But returning to what I said earlier, having a screen or not does not prove that "Disney level theming" cannot be provided in an Australian theme park. In my opinion, Scooby Doo has already achieved this. It's an Australian first. Well done.

What I was saying there was that without theming, a simulator is justa hydraulic lift in the dark. it has to have theming and a story, or its pointless to have. Then learn some english. As I just said above, if the batman ride did not have the video screen in front of it, there would be absolutely no enjoyment in the ride. if i wanted something like that, I'd put myself inside a cardboard box, get someone to chuck me in the back of a semi trailer while they drive uncontrollably down the freeway... same experience.... 1) i have been on the ride 2) you doubt wrong 3) the idea that we are looking for scooby doo IS stupid and ridiculous, since we see him in the first 10 seconds of the ride. 4) the only reason we hear "Scooby Doo, Where Are You" all the way through the ride is because thats the bloody theme song that has been attached to the damn cartoon for the last 20 damn years. It is simply a ghoster coaster, themed to a particular movie, which happened to be very popular at the time of it's construction. There is no story, or the story would be introduced to us in an Ante-Room before we got to the station. ***Movie World employee rocks up "hey everyone come on in we have a special preview screening of the newest scooby doo movie (phone rings) oh, well it seems scooby doo has run away from the set again, lets go look for him*** (hmmm that seems a bit like another ride at Movie World.... wouldn't you say?) I would assume that real rock would be too heavy, and cumbersome to have cut to measure, and real wood would pose a fire hazard. I still think disney is light years ahead of anything we have here. Thanks for that, now don't do it again.

Sorry,I've only been to Euro Disney,there they don't have a pre show movie room.I keep assuming all the Disney parks are exactly the same. :cool:

Alex, the story on Scooby Doo is most definitely that your looking for Scooby Doo. Its only a loose story (just as Splash Mountain's story is only loosely enforced) which kinda shows that you don't have to have an elaborate story to make a ride well themed. You also forget that not only does Batman have a heavy story (The only Simulator in Australia to have a story?), Looney Tunes River Ride has a story, and the new Superman (from what I hear) will have a story as well. No, I don't think story is the difference here. I think the difference in themeing standard is Disney's themeing seems a little more permanent, and a little more Genuine. Disney doesn't try and make Fiberglass look like wood, nor do they try and make fiberglass look like rock. Scooby Doo does on the otherhand, and feels more like a movie set then a haunted castle, which is consistant with the overall theme of the park, but is debatably not as effective as the mood created on Disney rides. Just my opinion.

Scott - what about splash mountain? I have to admit, Space Mountain is my absolute favourite, but the bottom line is, even if the ride doesnt have a story (i can't think of a single ride at disneyland that doesnt have some sort of story about it, except the outdoor rides and they're just flats and the like and can't really have a themed story to work with. the theming in them comes from the look of the attraction), but even if a disneyland ride doesn't have a story as such (which i've just said, they all do) the theming is superb. On the subject of Scooby's Ghost train theming, its fantastic... for what it is. but its not disney. to give you an example of the differences, compare it with splash mountain... splash mountain is a flumeenclosed ride, and the theming inside it is superb. Synchronised soundtracks on the ride, animatronics, spectacular lighting effects, and funky stuff that would have been completely unique upon opening - ill give you an example. part way through the ride, there are small "buckets" filled with a fluoro green creamy "paint-like" liquid, that is spat up and down under a UV light. I forget what these are meant to represent, but the effect is absolutely magic, and thats just one facet of an entire ride that lasts a good 5 or more minutes. Scooby Doo has a long way to go to get a "disney" tick of approval, and WBMW would probably not bother to go to the efforts, as the ride is just as popular without the extra additions. As far as Scooby having a story that people are looking for scooby doo, that is stupid and ridiculous. It is a replication of the ride in the movie, with a bit more "thrill" added at the end to make it more than just a ghost train. As far as Batman Adventure, its a simulator. A SIMULATOR! its only attraction is that it has to tell some sort of story. if you got on batman, and it did the same thing, but the screen didn't work... it would be absolutely nothing. the story is what makes a simulator work. and admittedly, the story is pretty crappy anyway.

I don't think MW is Disney satandard.I don't like saying it,but it's true.It is on the level of the Universal though,well,I can imagine that anyway.Disney's Frontierland is amazing,once you've seen that then you've seen it all.It's simply so well done.Also,not all disney rides have a story.In fact,only Space Mountain does really.Big Thunder just starts without any real story beforehand.Nor does Indiana.

Very interesting discussion. The Pirates of the Caribbean DVD (which I'm guessing you don't have) shows where the ride is located and how it works etc. The Batman Ride follows a story... And now I'm looking forward to ten angry posters replying with why it's not up to the Disney ride experience Scooby has a story as well, your trying to find Scoooooooooby Dooo. Thanks for your contribution GoBoi. But can I ask, what would you find more impressive in this part of the ride? I've been to Disneyland, but it was ages ago, and I can't really remember much of it...

That's the beauty of the Berm at Disneyland, it hides all the ugly show buildings just outside the parks perimetre. The first drop near the start of POTC is to get you down underneath the Disney railway line, taking you into the main show building, which sits outside the berm. You used to be able to see the show building from the car park but that has changed since DCA opened. Similar story with the Haunted Mansion, the elevator takes you down so that you can go under the railway line out to the back of the park.