Richard

The default assumption is that everyone in this community is an adult capable of understanding and following laws and restrictions. We welcome the sharing of content provided it's on-topic. This forum is not a place for policing, witch-hunts or politics and we'll continue to remove this kind of off-topic nonsense.

After the fact, absolutely. Sounds like the necessary boxes are being ticked. But the suggestion was that WHSQ were happy simply by virtue of being informed of the incident and because luckily no one was injured. This is objectively not true given a presumably preventable incident occurred that resulted in notices.

Three safety notices over an incident is objectively not “WHSQ are happy”.

So despite the mother stating emphatically that this was not the case, despite the fact that Dreamworld’s statement acknowledges the injury, despite the fact that Shine would certainly not be taking the case if it weren’t clear-cut injury... you guys think it’s still a possibility and worthy of speculation?

How did you come to that conclusion when you literally quoted me saying that this can indeed be discussed? Note that the media have done nothing more than interview the mother and publish a statement from Dreamworld. They are not speculating about pre-existing conditions, menstrual cycles, swimwear or weight. There is no publicly available information to suggest that any of these have any bearing on this incident, a somewhat common injury that happens at water parks around the world. We're not going to stymie discussion or tell you what you can and can't discuss beyond a pretty basic level of decorum we ask of everyone. But it's pretty weird the direction some members have taken the topic in their efforts to discredit the family... and that's me (and @rappa earlier) saying that as people, not as moderators trying to muzzle anything.

No this can be discussed given it's a widely covered news story. However the amount of pseudo-medical opinions and finger-pointing concerning an eight year old child is definitely on the weird side. Maybe being a theme park fan on the internet doesn't give people the authority to discuss a young girl's period, weight, swimwear choices, etc? As others have said, these sorts of incidents are not uncommon at water parks around the world. I know similar injuries have happened in the past at WNW and I would imagine through sheer numbers of guests over the years it's also happened before at WWW. There could be a design issue with the attraction, but more than likely it's one of those rare occurrences that can and does happen by virtue of the style and design of an attraction that Dreamworld willingly purchased and operates; theme parks have insurance for this reason. The most likely outcome is that Dreamworld quietly compensates the family and everyone moves on.

A bit of perspective folks. Something happened to a guest that shouldn’t happen. Instructions were possibly not followed — that’ll be a matter for investigation between the two parties — but if the safety of an attraction relies on an excited young child following verbal instructions then it is by definition not 100% safe. It might be 99.999% safe and that’s OK. And when that 0.001% happens then lawyers and insurers get involved and a resolution is found. These sorts of incidents are not infrequent and payouts for injuries sustained at theme parks happen all the time so the idea that this'll result in overhanded new restrictions is absurd. It's entirely likely that these discussions would have happened entirely behind closed doors like they typically do, were Dreamworld's reputation not what it was. Say what you will about the family/lawyer's media strategy, but no one can reasonably say that Dreamworld's safety standards shouldn't be under a microscope. Decades of mismanagement left the business with a weakness that will be exploited in situations like this, and the onus is on Dreamworld to repair that reputation so that such strategies don't work. The consensus in this topic that an eight year old child should be fully cognizant of the ramifications of adjusting their body on a low-intensity family slide is taking the whole "Dreamworld's the underdog" shtick a little bit too far. It's possible to simultaneously support Dreamworld, recognise that they have duty of care and the attractions they operate carry a non-zero risk, that injured guests are typically entitled to compensation in these kinds of situations and that trial-by-media is dirty but perhaps also shrewd.

We've merged all these threads into one. Apologies to @Baconjack who was first with the news, as your post was replaced by the auto-generated Parkz post in the process.

I wouldn't describe Mack as affordable. These days there's essentially no daylight between them and say Intamin or B&M in terms of price. B&M have been on the radar of Australian parks for quite some time now. They pitched for Rivals and have been on the list for AA's "billboard coaster" replacement. Price might have been a factor in the past but it isn't why we haven't seen one here yet. Not entirely sure the criteria "must please enthusiasts" and "will have a significant impact on attendance and revenue" are actually different. Certainly the attractions our parks have built in the past decade or two that didn't please enthusiasts also didn't have a lasting impact on profitability, and conversely those that are beloved did. Scooby, Superman, Rivals versus Motocoaster, Doomsday or Buzzsaw... there's a reason our parks are happily dropping $30+ million on great coasters now.

The physical model was provided by M&V and reflects the final layout. I thought this was fairly common knowledge? Here's pretty much everything you would want to know about Leviathan...

You can guarantee there was a debate about whether to significantly delay it or even pull the plug but ultimately they went ahead on schedule and there were no significant delays as a result of TRR. Name/theme/marketing changes sure, but groundwork was underway prior to the incident, track showed up a few months later and it was assembled like clockwork, save for a few design/fabrication hiccups. No doubt the certification/approval process was more involved and a few things were changed, rushed or scrapped but it was always destined for a September 2017 launch.

Not sure you’ve read what I’m saying correctly. Here’s the important bits:

... or M&V are currently overseeing a local crew as was always going to be the case? Village have said outright that they have specialists here for the project. For what it's worth, my original point was that despite the incredibly simple construction of wooden coasters, the skill and IP is in successfully managing the project. I'd also hazard a guess that Taft had very well versed project managers out from the US overseeing Bush Beast in much the same way that M&V are overseeing a local construction crew.

In-house job. But a concrete channel is a concrete channel, and that new section that snakes under Storm is all that would remain on a resurrected flume. If it's to spec in terms of dimensions/gradient/water depth then no reason a manufacturer and/or local engineers wouldn't sign off on it. And you can bet given it was built in 2012, actual engineering with a solid paper trail went into its design and construction.

Yes — the flume dimensions on Vikings Revenge is industry standard so Intamin/Mack/etc could bring it to life. From a structural perspective the castle is likely toast in terms of supporting a ride like this, but that’s a good thing. The boats, station, lift(s), drop(s) and splashdown would all need to be new so the flume you’re reusing to save a few hundred thousand is that thoroughly unremarkable section that meanders through the gravel under Storm. This was part of the big plan pre-Atlantis. I think bringing back the (or a) flume would be easiest and most cost effective win possible for SW but the concept was so thoroughly overthought and destined to be both heinously expensive and underwhelming that everyone should be glad it never happened. It’s why the flume wasn’t swiftly removed and likely why it’s not one of the attractions earmarked for removal this year, so there’s hope yet.

It's a bit hard to debate on the merits when you preemptively dismiss any rebuttal with this kind of petty garbage. The webcast/Q&A completely echoes the presentation in its substance. This article isn't mourning the loss of rather uninspiring attractions nor ignoring the fact that it's a time for drastic measures across the board, but rather it is questioning the stated strategy behind closures and downsizing as a whole. Unprecedented trading conditions have halted things like the ABC Kids expansion, which ostensibly would have included a replacement for the Big Red Car Ride, but when they're caught with their pants down for the umpteenth time in a few short years regarding long-term retirement and rejuvenation plans it starts to become a bit of a boy who cried wolf situation.

Virtually all the modern advancements in traditional wooden coasters come down to computer design and better trains. All the big manufacturers share near identical specs that have remained unchanged for a century. Even RMC uses the same track gauge and basic specs on their hybrids as just about every wooden coaster in existence. There's really nothing to a wooden coaster at its core. Measure, cut, bolt, repeat. Tolerances aren't critical until very late in the piece and are easily corrected; even then we're not talking millimetre precision like on a steel coaster. Martin & Vleminckx as a manufacturer would certainly have their own preferred methods (and Gravity Group would have their own design preferences that other designers wouldn't) but they aren't bringing some magic recipe so much as a history of delivering wooden coasters on schedule and budget. More so than Vortex or Dreamworld's coaster where there's local firms skilled at building these rides, I'd be inclined to say that neither SW nor M&V would be too keen for significant progress without that wooden coaster expertise on site.

I don't think anyone's argued that Dreamworld is not a fundamentally viable business but those impressive figures are the product of Ardent's objectively unsustainable business model. EBITDA really isn't a great measure of anything given that this is a capital intensive industry and just how neglected Dreamworld was. Free cash flow for that five year period amounts to about $112 million. There's actually not a lot of liquidity had they been properly maintaining the park and planning for the graceful retirement of TRR, Log Ride, Wipeout and TOT and more. Jury is still out on their recovery plan: Australia lenders wouldn't give them the finance while USA lenders ring-fenced Main Event debt facilities. That's not a great start. As for book value: they'd been actively trying to sell for years. Any number of would-be buyers would jump at a park delivering those margins but I suspect due diligence and an understanding of the immediate capital requirements killed discussions with the Wandas/Merlins/Villages of the world.

I missed that front page story too. Tagging error fixed!

Obviously Ardent’s own announcements that suggest that they’re getting similar funding but it is worth noting that QTC is a state owned investment body whose obligations are to ensure a good return on investment for Queensland. It’s not a case of fairness.

How about we cool it with the faux outrage? Nothing here comes anywhere near personal attacks, gate-keeping or passive aggressive, so this whole exchange is thoroughly uninteresting.

It's been pretty obvious from day one that Vortex was a calculated move based on the demise of Wipeout. Opportunistic sure, but the opportunity was there for the taking... If the public perception is "there's one like Wipeout at Sea World", then how exactly is that a bad thing?

Let's actually move on. We've suspended members for creating fake accounts and deleted a whole lot of posts here because it's clear some people seem only interested in creating drama. If you wish to discuss our policies about what members can and can't post then feel free to start a topic in Site Issues. (Spoiler: we'll allow almost anything that's not offensive but from time to time may remove things for a whole lot of reasons including requests from park management that we look at on a case by case basis, and our record speaks for itself when it comes to free and open discussion.)

We've been asked by VRTP to delete that screenshot. I'm sure most of you appreciate the recent hands-on approach they've taken with this community so let's leave it as a "you can't have your cake and eat it too" situation and move on.

$80 million after the refinance in April 2019 but down to $58 million as at 31 December 2019.