GoGoBoy

I think all the casual staff should just get out now. Why help Wonderland? They've never really helped the staff out. Bad pay, bad conditions. The place deserves to close early and miss out on the holiday influx of cash. I have no respect for the owners or management. Who cares if a few families miss out on going... most families who hold wonderpasses have already visited almost every day anyway since they've heard the news of the closure. There's nothing special or new to see there for those that haven't been for a while... it's the same as it was 10 years ago (but now with even less themed areas, shows and rides). People are better to just hold onto their memories of when the place first opened

I was reading info about the World of Adventure purchase and apparantley the park gets an average of 1.5 million visitors each year and $16 million in profit. The park has 10 roller coasters, lots of other attractions, a water park and 'several' childrens areas. Therefore their running costs would be very high yet they still make a good profit. The majority of our Aussie theme parks get similar visitation levels... so why don't our parks also have 10 coasters each and several childrens areas??? We have nothing of that sort. It doesn't make sense to me. Dreamworld gets close to 1.5 mill guests each year. Can someone explain this?

Richard - the source, author and date for each article are written underneath each of the bold headlines. I know there is not really any new info as such in the articles (as I said I was not expecting any of you to be surprised) but as you said Richard it is the first time this angle has been published, unfortunately. Also thought it was interesting to hear from Neil Balnaves and it pleases me that he is obviously well aware of the need for capital investment in a park

I have found a couple of articles which give a far more accurate account of why Wonderland is closing and the deceptiveness behind it. This goes against everything the CEO said and what Sunway would like the general public to believe. The articles may make some of you even more angry but they are well worth a read. I don't think anything will surprise you though, most of us were aware of what has been going on for some time. The first one has some insight from Neil Balnaves from Dreamworld (Macquarie Leisure). I think he is spot on. Happy reading and don't forget to share your thoughts... Selling fun just not the Wonderland it used to be Author: Kathy Mac Dermott Date: 21/02/2004 Publication: Financial Review Wonderland Sydney's relegation this week to the theme park scrap heap highlights just how tough the business of selling fun has become. The 19-year-old thrill venue is being bulldozed for a traditional industrial estate, leaving Sydney without a major theme park attraction and Wonderland's Malaysian vendor with a hefty profit from the land sale. "Everyone is not doing as well as they were because the fall in international tourists has dented theme park revenues," forensic valuer Brian Cox says. Overseas attendees provide a better yield once they pass through the gates, with Japanese visitors the best spenders. Wonderland's demise follows that of the disastrous Fox Studios Backlot theme park, which Lend Lease and News Corp were forced to shut down after less than two years of operation, and the closure of Old Sydney Town. Other proposals just never progressed beyond the drawing board, including the $485million Studio City proposal for Melbourne's Docklands and the canning of Dolly Parton's Dixie Stampede planned for Surfers Paradise. This week Wonderland's chief executive Stephen Galbraith cited a litany of reasons for the park's demise, including Asian bird flu, SARS and the collapse of HIH. But other operators and analysts place the blame closer to home. One of the pioneers of Wonderland and now chairman of Macquarie Leisure, Neil Balnaves, said the park's vendor, Sunway City Berhad, had not invested any money into the complex during its eight years of ownership. "It was basically a 'wear-out' process," he says. Theme parks need a capital injection of between $3million and $4million each year to survive. Balnaves dismisses claims that international events including September 11 and SARS drove Wonderland to the wall as "excuses". "Overall the theme park industry is in great shape," he says. People are not travelling overseas and Macquarie Leisure has been able to tap into this to bolster its domestic visits. In its recently released interim results, Macquarie Leisure reported a 29 per cent improvement in Dreamworld's profit at a time when its international patronage was at an historic low. Balnaves started working on feasibility studies for Wonderland in the early 1970s and opened the park in December 1984. In the mid 1990s he said Wonderland was consistently attracting 1 million visitors a year. He describes its closure as a tragedy. "It's a real disappointment to see an asset of Sydney go like that because of a zoning change out of nowhere," he says. A spokeswoman from Wonderland declined to comment on the allegations that the park had been neglected. Cox says Wonderland also suffered because of its Eastern Creek location. "At a time when international tourists want to do Cape York to Melbourne in one day, Wonderland was too far out of Sydney," he says. The country's remaining theme parks of Dreamworld, Movie World and Sea World work because of their clustering on the Gold Coast. "Theme park junkies want more than one theme park experience in their holidays," Cox says. Theme park analyst David Barbuto, of JPI Consulting, says Wonderland had lost its identity and did not offer a sufficient menu of attractions to lock people into a four- to six-hour stay. It is critical to snare visitors for two meals because significant margins are sourced from food and beverage sales, he explains. Wonderland's lack of branding also meant the park could not harness valuable merchandising sales. Jamberoo bucks trend Author: By DAVID CRAWSHAW Date: 18/02/2004 Publication: Illawarra Mercury THE Illawarra's only theme park is proving more popular with visitors, despite Sydney's Wonderland closing its doors citing the impact of terrorism, SARS and Asian bird flu. Jim Eddy, who runs Jamberoo Recreation Park, does not buy Wonderland's argument and says business could not be better. Mr Eddy said yesterday his park had just registered its best summer holiday period, and visitor numbers were soaring. ``We had 91,000 visitors over December and January, compared to 81,500 last year and 79,600 the year before." Mr Eddy said the park was on track to exceeding 200,000 visitors this financial year - up from 170,000 in 2002-03 and 165,400 in 2001-02. Domestic tourism accounted for 96 per cent of the park's business, and 68 per cent of visitors were from Sydney. Mr Eddy expects Wonderland's closure to benefit his business, although he admits he is sad to see the icon go. ``I'm saddened by (the closure) because I don't like it to be happening to the industry," he said. ``We compete pretty hard with them so we expect to pick up (group bookings) ... Christmas parties, school excursions. ``But in the longer term it's going to have a negative impact on the industry. It takes another player out of the market." Wonderland's demise follows the closure of Old Sydney Town on the Central Coast and the Kinkuna Country Fun and Fauna Park at Lakes Entrance, Victoria. Mr Eddy said he believed development pressures, rather than hard times, had prompted Wonderland's closure. The 100ha site in western Sydney was worth about $100million, and its owners could make more money from subdividing the site than they could from a theme park, he said. ``I don't understand (Wonderland) suggesting SARS is to blame. The land value has put the viability of the site for development way ahead of it being used as a theme park." He said Merimbula's Magic Mountain attraction was also considering subdividing parts of its land for residential development. A Magic Mountain spokesman said all options were being explored, but for now the centre was still trading as a theme park. Symbio Wildlife Gardens owner John Radnidge said international tourism had fallen in the past few years but domestic tourism was up. The business had just invested $250,000 on a crocodile exhibit, he said. Crowd pleasers Jamberoo Recreation Park visitor numbers: 2002-03: 170,000 2001-02: 165,400 Summer holiday (Dec - Jan) figures: 2003-04: 91,000 2002-03: 81,500 2001-02: 79,600

Apparantley the managers have been desperately doing everything possible to fill shifts to ensure the park stays open until April 26th. It seems to be working too as none of the rides have been closed for a day yet (besides the usuals). Also, I heard that there were possibly a bunch of new staff employed in the attractions department. They were seen standing around in the wardrobe department trying on uniforms. Can't confirm whether they were actually new staff or not though. Who would take a job there now? Perhaps the CEO has seen the fairly largish numbers coming through the gates at the moment and wants to make sure the park remains open to suck in as much cash as possible before closure (and then more cash upon closure ofcourse ie. $52.5 mill)

I hope the fact that the city will be busy is the reason you guys do not want to head in there... not because you're worried about homosexual men. Surely everyone here is more open minded than that

Unfortunately it's true... I would imagine the majority of Wonderland's guests are blissfully unaware that Demon is a crappy old coaster. Most Aussies would still be quite impressed with it (boy are we ever behind the times!). Therefore, Dreamworld could probably get away with it. However, the fact that they have already bought a second hand coaster from another park in Oz which was highly publicised may be an issue for them. If they add ANOTHER one to their collection they might start getting a bit of a dodgy reputation. I'm sure DW would be aware of this. Don't do it Dreamworld... say NO to Demon! My guess is that it's heading off to Kuala Lumpar as the 'brand spanking new' attraction at Sunway Lagoon. They don't seem to know any better over there either

No way Gazza. I think IF Dreamworld was to buy the Demon (I truly hope not) it should be re-themed as Tsunami... exactly as it is in your ride concept drawings. That would be perfect

Richard you are absolutely spot on. The CEO even said something to that effect during the staff closure meeting. He talked about the various improvements that had been made to the park over the last few years and how they were almost entirely funded out of Wonderland's own operating revenue. Oh Sunway... how little respect I have for you

Oh no... not Dreamworld! Please no more 2nd hand coasters. The thing that is annoying now is that Wonderland is starting to become packed out with visitors every day because everyone wants one last visit before it closes. So Sunway get to reap the benefits of 2 full months of a totally busy park and then sell it for a nice profit. It's all good for Sunway. The way I see it is that people should really be boycotting Wonderland... not giving them a nice cash bonus before they close. I guess everyone wants to go for one (or more) last trips to say goodbye. No new attraction could bring in the sort of numbers the theme and wildlife park is getting now that it is closing

Well if you think about it Sunway paid only around $50 million originally when they bought the WHOLE of the Wonderland property. This property included all the land surrounding the main driveway and car parks. Sunway has been selling these parcels of land off seperately for various prices. The $52.5 mill that everyone is talking about is just for the specific land that the theme park sits on. So therefore in total they have made well over $52.5 mill. When you think about it that way, Sunway hasn't done too badly at all. It's also worth noting that Sunway will continue to have a financial interest in some of the land as not all of it was sold completely... part of the business park is going to be a joint venture with Sunway. By the way... welcome back Daniel, we missed you. Forgot to say that before. Where were you?

The shot Richard posted isn't actually a shot of the main entry facade, it is a side view of the building. I absolutely loved the ride when I was a bit younger. It is well themed and filled with lots of atmosphere. There are parts of the ride where you feel like you are floating along an actual jungle river at night (it is quite dark). The only problem is that it seems to have deteriorated quite a bit over the last few years. It is definitely not quite as good as when it first opened (like most attractions I guess). I also don't mind the fact that most of Movie World's dark rides are in 'aluminum sheds'. The sheds are designed to look like sound stages/movie studios so I think the park can get away with it. It is better when they actually create a proper facade out the front of the sheds though... like they did with Scooby Doo

Just noticed that your pics disappeared Gazza... I'm guessing because we transferred over to the new forums. Can you re-post them? I was just thinking now how perfect Tsunami would be for Dreamworld considering the Demon may go on sale for a rather cheap price. It would fit so well in Ocean Parade. As much as I hate the Demon and don't really want to see it continue it's life in Australia... if Dreamworld totally re-themed it with all the elements you have in your pic including the massive wave and water sprays... I would be excited to ride it again

That is such a cool idea Gazza. I swear you have some of the best ideas for ride designs I have ever seen. Whether or not they would always work perfectly technically doesn't matter 'cause it's all about experimenting and trial and error until you get the right design. All of your theming ideas compliment the rides really well too. I hope you are going to study engineering or something similar at uni so you can make a career of this. We need people like you in the industry

No one has given me an answer regarding my request for another date. Does that mean it's a no then?

Oh no! Does it have to be 7th March? How about the following Sunday? I know you guys have kinda locked it in but would anyone object to the following week? I'd LOVE to come but can't make it 7th March. Pleeeease. Even the previous Sunday would be okay (29th I think). Just not the 7th!

djrappa - very well said. Channel seven news did a great segment on Wonderland tonight. They showed the CEO crapping on and on with his list of tragic world and local events which have affected the park.. all an obvious cover up. They made him look like a fool (which he is for the way he is handling this). They also showed the CEO saying only that there had been "an expression of interest" in the WS site. The report then went on to say that the site has actually been sold to ING for $52 million for industry purposes. He was therefore lieing to the staff last night when he told them that he "did not know" what was going to happen to the site. What a disgrace. Congratulations Malaysia - you have made some serious bucks out of one of our treasured assets and turned it into a pile of factories. Thanks again

If you wouldn't mind, save the Luna Park questions for the Luna Park section of these forums. I don't want to sidetrack from this important topic. Even though I guess it was inevitable for Wonderland to close considering the way Sunway were doing things... I am still amazed that we are even discussing this. It is all very surreal don't you think? I can't get my head around it. They day has actually come. No more WS. So, so weird. Richard - looking forward to your thoughts on this...

That's one of the things that makes me so angry with Sunway. All the previous owners of the park sold Wonderland to other companies rather than shutting the place down. Sunway is not going to do this. Why is that? My guess is that they want the land to sell off and develop for the business park. Come on guys, we all had a suspicion that this might happen. It wouldn't make sense building an ugly business park so close to a theme park if this wasn't the case. The CEO avoided this topic by saying he had not been told what was going to happen to the site. He did mention there was some interest in the site but this could mean anything. I can guarantee to you right now that the site will NOT re-open as a theme park. If this was going to happen Sunway would have made sure they sold it first before announcing its closure

Richard - is there any way you can change the title of this topic? Now that it is confirmed I think it needs to be something more appropriate like 'Wonderland Closing - It's Official'. It is such a MAJOR issue afterall. I have managed to gather some info which has come direct from this evenings meeting. Some of the points the CEO made are as follows: *The CEO said that he could not guarantee that the park would actually stay open until the end of the April school holidays, although he is going to try. He said he would play it by ear as it depends on how many staff actually decide to stay around until that time *The park was in financial difficulty when Sunway first purchased it around 8 years ago *Sunway were able to spend some money refurbishing and upgrading the park but were not able to spend any large amounts of capital due to the state of the parent company (thanks to various factors like the asian economic crisis). Because of this, no major new attraction could be added to Wonderland *Wonderland was apparantley badly affected by all the recent negative world events which is supposedly a major reason the park is closing. He felt that in the last 5 years however, the park had greatly improved and thought it was an effort to be proud of. He said the park had been able to fund much of its improvements and refurbs from its own operating revenue (or something to that effect) *When Wonderland would have a good year the CEO would promote this fact to the board of directors at Sunway but the board would say to Stephen "we just can't keep doing this anymore (loosing money)" *He mentioned that the parks in QLD are in a better financial position compared to Wonderland and are generating profits which is why they are still open *A small number of staff will remain in the park after it closes to perform various jobs. Wildlife staff in particular will be required to stay on for some time to help with the transportation of the animals to other venues etc. *The CEO also said that once it has closed, the theme park will remain as is until further notice. Apparantley the board of directors has not given him any information regarding the future of the site but there was some "interest" already expressed in the site (ie. the land) My personal opinion remains the same as it has always been. I truly feel that things may have been different if the Malaysian company Sunway had not taken over. Sunway was not able to (or reluctant to) invest the necessary capital to truly boost Wonderland's performance. They have allowed the park to close without any thought as to how this may impact on Sydney. The fact is they probably don't care. Wonderland is a Sydney and Australian icon. I believe that Sunway have had their sights on that parcel of land that Wonderland has been sitting on for some time. In time, I'm sure they will redevelop the land for the expansion of the business park. As I have always said, this will mean almost instant profits for them. Unfortunately they are just not interested in investing any more time nurturing one of Sydney's most loved assets

I don't know if you would be able to call that a good start. If you ask me it would be just another CHEAP Wonderland attempt to try and incorporate their Marvel relationship more. If they are going to do that it should be with new rides or else re-theme the entire Transylvania area to Marvel (not just select sections of it). I hope that does not happen though as I like Transylvania as it is - it has some of the best theming in the park in my opinion. Also, they should save the 'Spiderman' name for one of the bigger and better rides. They would also need to remove all the current theming around the actual wave swinger (dragon's flight) gondola as it is very flowery and old fashioned... not so suitable for Spiderman

I have to say that I really like the sound of Dreamworld's refurbished Wildlife Experience. I like the fact that they have separated the area into different themes (each representing a distinct Australian environment). Afterall, it IS a THEME PARK. I would be very impressed if I was visiting from overseas... much better than Wonderland's very basic Australian Wildlife Park (it is in a particularly bad state right now). Congrats to Dreamworld for all the great recent refurbs! On another note, I was looking over DW's owners corporate website and reading some of their reports. It noted that attendances have continued to increase during the second half of last year and the first half of this year. It also mentioned that the temporary Tomb Raider exhibit was very well received and that this proved that DW was able to 'prudently manage its capital investments'. I am concerned that DW may feel that it is not neccesary to add expensive new rides when they are able to add temporary exhibits and still gain an increase in visitation. I also read that DW's 'intensive 3 year capital investment campaign' has come to an end. Do you still think it is likely that DW will continue to add major new permanent attrations on a regular basis? How sure are you Richard that a new RIDE is actually coming this year? I may be just reading into it all a bit too much

Interesting to read your thoughts on the petting zoo Richard. I hadn't realised that DW was similar to WS in terms of the large number of asian visitors they get to their wildlife park section. Does the Australian Wildlife Experience have a separate entrance similar to the Australian Wildlife Park at WS or do visitors have to pay the full DW entry price? Also, what is the wildlife area like compared to Wonderlands? (from what I can see they both have similar shows - sheep shearing, koala displays etc). I find it strange that the petting zoo is going to be an extension of Nick Central rather than the wildlife area. Is it anywhere near Nick Central? Do you think it will have any of the same theming? I can think of much more appropriate minor expansions for Nick Central than a petting zoo. However, if it is actually going to be designed as part of the wildlife experience then that makes more sense to me (as it would be appealing to the asian tourists as discussed earlier)

Hey Slick... for someone who loves Dreamworld so much you should know that it is simply branded as one word - Dreamworld. There should be no capital W in 'world'

I'm surprised DW is adding ANOTHER animal exhibit. Any more and that place will be more of a zoo than a theme park