DaptoFunlandGuy

Continuing conversation from this reply i've put down my current thoughts on a WB Kids refresh. What WB Kids needs is to be gutted and refreshed. My ideal first plan would reclaim the other half of the old LTRR soundstage from maintenance - maintenance might need to relocate entirely if they've outgrown their own space. Put in a new kids area into the soundstage building with multiple attractions similar to Mermaid lagoon at disneysea, or USJ's Sesame Street Fun World. It doesn't need to be immersive, just an indoor area out of the sun with some rides and activities for the little kids to blow off some energy. The reason this is the first plan is it provides the opportunity to refresh the rest of the land without dropping the kids offering in the park. Once this is open, move to refreshing the rest of the land: Remove speedy taxis. It serves no purpose with the introduction of JDS Find a new home for the parents room that doesn't occupy prime attraction space and demolish Taz' Rest Stop along with the original Marvin facade to make space for new attractions. You could potentially provide parent's room facilities as part of the new indoor stage space if you planned for it. Consider the longevity of both Sam Train and Tweety Cages and perhaps remove them in place of new attractions If this whole corner of the kids area can be cleared, then also consider (controversial I know) removing the giant tree. It's a gorgeous old tree and it's been there for a long time, but it occupies prime park real estate and is a major blocker to expansion If the tree comes out, tweety, sam train, taz and the old marvin area are removed, you're left with a huge plot of land you can close all at once, which allows greenfield planning for a new install, with the added benefit you can actually run power to the character stage and bury the cables rather than flying them through the trees suspended on wooden poles. Update JDS to bring it current to today's park lineup (remove arkham, add WOZ, for example - and does it have DCR?) Turn the JDS arcade (is that still there with the new kids arcade?) into a JDS themed gift shop to bring more opportunity for merchandising into the land instead of the laneway entrance most people walk straight past. Reopen the restaurant with a new offering and re-establish a covered (umbrellas) seating area for parents to chill while the kids run their energy out. Probably a bit much especially for BGH's current attitude toward the park, but that's what i'd love to see. WB Kids currently offers a disjointed experience. There are 'rides for babies' plus road runner. So the slightly older kids that have outgrown the 'baby rides' but haven't graduated to hypercoasters don't have a lot of middle ground, so there's an opportunity with this level of expansion to provide some 'middle of the road' attractions - a lot like what Sea World offers in their nickelodeon area.

All great suggestions. And while i'd love to bash village here and say they just went with the cheapest option to solve the problem, my bet here is that their risk analyst\consultant has probably told them the more thematic options Gazza posted above weren't acceptable because it only reduces the risk but could still be climbed and only 6+foot pool fencing would eliminate the risk, and anything less than total risk elimination simply wasn't an option for them in this current risky averse world.

Its a hard pill to swallow when a rollercoaster can be built in a year, but it takes 3 years to rebuild. From what I understand, they had planned on upgrades with Mack and had booked their build slot - which I believe was supposed to be after WoZ opened - but the ride had to be closed earlier than planned - the build slot couldn't be moved up, so the 3 years has just been waiting on Mack to deliver in the timeframe previously locked in. I believe they've taken the time to improve other bits and pieces (and all the cars are getting replaced too, I think?), so there is a lot being done - but the time it has taken is much longer than actually required - which may set some false expectations.

Honestly - in the current environment, the reveal would not be worth the potential foot traffic to their retail offering. Having almost all their merch and F&B down main street - i'd avoid it entirely. If you consider what the park offered prior to 2004 - Main Entrance offered BA:TRide and the SFX soundstages \ studio tour. That's it. "rides" and experiences were all through \ beyond main street. Roxy, Scooby, PASS\HWSD, Lethal, WWF, Kids, showstage and all the other various attractions that have come and gone over the years. Everything was in or past main street. Now, almost nothing is and everything is front-loaded. I realise the park has issues with noise (not a problem for indoor dark rides of course) but the front loading is so bad now you could effectively never walk past any opportunity to drain your pockets, save for the JL store at the exit. It just seems like really poor design.

There is literally zero reason to walk past the WB Department store - everything open (for adults) is off the entrance roundabout. Edit: They should probably remove Doomsday from the list since they've announced it (and ripped it out of the ground) Edit2: even off the roundabout there's still 3 attractions closed - Rivals, Flash and Wicked Witch.

like - even *not black* would have helped.

*sigh*

The Rivertown area could do with a few 'themed billboards' put together out of ramshackle junk and old timey lights - "kind of like the highway signs of "just 2 miles until you reach...."

Are you this obtuse deliberately or were you just born with it?

it's a bit of a double whammy for jungle rush because dropping the second train instantly increases the cycle time by 33% in addition to the load time. For both parks though, it is off peak, out of holidays - this is the time when train rebuilds should happen so that they can run both trains in the peak periods. At least in JR's case it is out of the sun and at least they attempted to provide guest comfort with ventilation systems in the queue.

i'm sure many people would be unaware that the restaurant even had a function room. I know it was in some earlier concepts somewhere but I never saw it, nor any doorways leading to it, so when I saw the advertisement posted (which also said "live inside janes rivertown restaurant" it was a fair assumption for me to make it would take over the entire dining room. I've no doubt many other potential guests will see that and assume the same thing - potentially scaring diners away rather than attracting trivia buffs! I realise it's their marketing and not yours brad - not aiming my critique at you, just calling it how I see it. Also as an additional critique of the park - the early days of opening, they had queues, and refused people a table on the basis that they were waiting for tables - but they had an entire function room space they could have opened up to seat more covers?

Well now - be sure to read things properly to understand what's happening before looking silly - you're incorrect here for two reasons a ride envelope with a supervising operator is a bit different to a static display with no staff on duty in any nearby capacity I was answering the question posed by Narra about what risks they did identify, and I was postulating what logic MW's consultancy firm may have used - rather than stating my own opinion.

You can't rush these things. it might take other folk 9 months to build a rollercoaster, but here at village, we'll refurbish one in 3 years if it kills us.

Yeah look - I'm glad they're trying things out and it's awesome you've been able to collaborate with them. I know they want to drive visitation and increase revenue, and i'm not shitting on the concept at all - I don't mind a little pub trivia on occasion while having a drink or two... ...but if trivia is happening in a venue - I prefer to eat elsewhere. This is definitely something i'd avoid, for my own personal tastes and preferences.

Also probably down to it being a kids ride in a kids area, and assuming children would follow instructions and adults would be mature enough to take responsibility for their own actions (and their progeny).

Seriously? that shit has bothered me for years and they fix it NOW?

100% was not suggesting your prior callouts were undeserved - though in some cases I would hold a different opinion!

sensible decision.

Kudos for the self-reflection and calling out your prior criticisms in comparison - I agree with you though - the whole area is beautifully done and almost perfect. The progress they've made from "opening" day to now is wonderful and the turntable chamber would have easily dragged the score lower if you'd seen it on opening day when it was practically a black box. It would have been great for them to open fully show-ready, but they easily could have opened and called it a day - so the constant installations and upgrades post-opening where they continue to plus it really does deserve that 9/10 - and maybe when they're finished - maybe it'll even crack that double digits... it is definitely really well done. Just unfortunate the timing of things (which they definitely should have allowed for in the project, so there's really no excuse for the delays - but at least they're persisting!)

I'm wondering if someone could get crazy enough to create a zacspin style track for a zipper - so rather than just the loop it could do more? probably not practical for a traveller but that thing would look insane - i'm just spitballing what they could do to the humble zipper to reinvent it?

I've seen the same thing at many parks that open midweek in the off season. He frequently doesn't. The point about the attendance is that it increased on the prior year - by more than the amount you saw in the park no less. I'm quite sure someone said recently 'a water park is not a theme park'. It makes less sense to open it in winter. you're competing with a small enough crowd as it is. Dry park on the other hand, if you're open, you're forcing customers to choose between you and a competitor. If you close, you're giving the game away. As for the insurance payout, i'm sure it was absorbed into the capex for rivertown, so in a way, they did rebuild it - just elsewhere. (and even if it didn't technically get absorbed into the rivertown budget, it's all CE's money so it really doesn't matter. they got paid by insurance to rebuild vintage cars, and they rebuild vintage cars. end of. First of all, they're not sacked. Let's not start using emotive and inflammatory language to get people upset about a normal thing that happens every year. They're hired on contracts and the contracts have a fixed end date. As I understand it Raging Waters in Sydney has a similar issue with retaining staff over seasons, but its just the nature of a seasonal business and the workers go into that eyes open. I think more than a few waterpark folk double as Ski Resort workers in the winter, and many come back year on year. But that isn't a good enough reason to open the waterpark in winter. It is however a good enough reason to keep your dry park open.

plural? so either fully 4 is losing weight or triple vortex is going?

So, just to be clear, the person who was crying the park closed an hour early... is now suggesting the park should close in the off season instead? Just for the record - the 2024 annual report indicated attendance had increased by 14.3% from 2023 to 2024. On average, that's an extra 478 people in the park each day*. I am willing to bet that the opening of rivertown will have boosted this number again. Are there likely to be some days with low attendance that eat into profits? Yes. Does it make sense to shutter the dry park entirely in cold months? Not at all - events like winterfest are a hit and people are willing to visit a dry park in colder months - in fact the lower attendances make it a nicer visit for folk who prefer lesser crowds. Additionally the park being open midweek opens the opportunity to have school or tour groups drop by. International tourism is still increasing in the sector so offering a wildlife product to compete with Paradise country is also a source of additional profit. If they close the park entirely due to low visitation on some days, they give up the opportunity to turn a profit or welcome tour and school groups which supplement the park income. They also decimate their full-time employees who are no longer able to fulfil their contracted hours - which then leads to staff shortages in peak seasons and 3 hour waits for a hypercoaster.Nevermind wrong park. Does it make sense to shutter a water park in colder months? Yes it does. You're unlikely to make a profit, especially if you're competing with another one down the road. period. *Yes the group reports attendance across all properties including Skypoint so this isn't precisely indicative of park attendance. I'd like to say 'you get the point though' but I suspect you'll ignore it.

A reduction to zero is still a reduction. Yes, one stays open over winter, the other doesn't. See, a different perspective on this is the locals who have been many times who drop in for an afternoon after school, get a couple of rides, stay for the night market on those days. By putting the new thing in the morning, and having it stop before school lets out, those afternoon visitors HAVE to attend the park in the morning, when the kids are typically in school - so that ends up being a weekend visit for the school kids, and well, we're already here dad, can we go on other rides too... etc etc. Dreamworld doesn't want to put their hand in your pocket for a measly cent - they're going after the families having to make a special trip and likely to spend the day once they've been. Its the different demographic of the park though - Universal Hollywood guests are not typically dropping in for a single show and leaving, whereas most folk stopping into dreamworld are likely to spend at least a few hours (and a few dollars) while they're there, so bringing them in at a time they otherwise wouldn't have increases spend for normal people. I still say you'd get more money with a second eatery. No brain no pain. But it's also acclimatisation. I grew up in an area that regularly got temperatures below freezing. top temperatures rarely went above early 30s except a few days in the peak of summer nosing up to 40. When I first moved to QLD, I visited WNW in the winter, and everything was a nice walk-on. the wave pool was a bit chilly but everything else - because we didn't stand still in a queue - was pretty warm (I do miss the whirlpool springs being heated though). Almost two decades on, i've acclimatised. You won't catch me in a pool post-easter. For parks that we well know rely on the locals to support them in the off-season, expecting a bunch of folk acclimatised to a south east queensland climate to go swimming in winter is a bit absurd. The only feasible way to make it appealing is to build a dome over the park like they do in countries with cold climates so it becomes a greenhouse oasis. Unfortunately that means in Summer it becomes an Oven. And truthfully, I don't think anyone could agree that an all-weather dome over a park that big would be a practical and sensible expenditure. A winter attendance of 3-400 in a waterpark dropping due to rain = practically zero guests. A winter attendance of 3-4000 in a theme park dropping due to rain = still hundreds of guests.

Yeah if they've got a risk assessment that says that number is needed, i'm not going against it. I've seen the lifeguards and the aquatic trainers, and the constant view scanning they do, the frequent fatigue changeovers... much like the requirements in Australia for seatbelts and supplementary restraints on rides, i'd prefer overstaffed lifeguards than dead kids.