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Gazza

Other viable locations for water parks to open in Aus?

27 posts in this topic

The proposal/approval of a water park in Hervey Bay with a sub $30 mil price tag (Despite the relativley small size of the place, and lower tourist numbers compared to elsewhere) has got me thinking....where else in Australia do people think water parks could pop up?

Here are my thoughts.

Adelaide

This is one market I think would genuinely be sucessful. Very little in the way of local entertainment options, and I hate using this word to describe it, but I think the locals are "bogan" enough for a water park to be appealing....No high culture needed!

The Beachouse is really all they've got, but it shoots itself in the foot by really only being appealing to those under 14 or so.

Their proposal to put in a water play structure was knocked back, so they're basically stuck as they are for now.

Newcastle

Yeah, WnW Sydney is coming, but I think Newy and the Central Coast and the Hunter is separate enough that a medium sized water park catering to the catchment of 500,000 or so could do well.

Darwin

On the other hand, this is one place I wouldn't go near. It would be tough for a private operator to compete with the two free government run waterparks in the suburbs....Why would families pay for something they can get for free, and how would a private operator sell the fact their slides are 'better' in the first place?

Perth

Probably another difficult market to get into...Adventure World can just kick into gear and put in more diverse water slides. Along with that Outback Splash place being built at that Maze in North East Perth the city is going to be pretty well covered for the time being.

Melbourne

Adventure Park down in Geelong is chugging along nicely, as is Funfields, which have recently put a new water play structure and a couple of raft slides.

I don't think the argument really washes that Melbourne is too cold for a seasonal outdoor water park, when you can find outdoor water parks in cold countries like Denmark http://goo.gl/maps/pqsiO and Canada http://goo.gl/maps/8Pd3L

Townsville

No water slides at all in this city! The largest city in FNQ with a decent local population that is rapidly growing.

Cairns

It kinda seems like Adventure Waters is dead in the water (excuse the pun)

I still reckon one could do well. Sugar World suffers from the same problem as the Beachouse in Adelaide...Too much focus on younger local kids, and completley ignores the passing tourist population.

I reckon an investor would be better served to just purcase the place and the adjoining land, and expand it.

Coffs Harbour

A possibility? Might be a few years down the track though...I reckon you'd want a regional population of 100,000k to support it.

Finally

I reckon the Cowabunga Bay type concept would be a good one to start off with in smaller markets.

http://goo.gl/maps/DoXV6

Basically just a small locally oriented place, anchored by a lazy river and a huge water play structure...Great visual impact and the low construction cost keeps the admission price low.

I personally would be inclined to add in at least one conventional slide complex in with it too just to round if off a bit more and make it more appealing to a wider audience.

Thoughts?

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No love for Tassie? Too cold? Small Population? Would a "Cowabunga Bay" work there? Perhaps somesort of revival of that Serendipity park?

Melbourne doesn't need another, Water Parks are fairly common already. Plus we're getting those two slides at the Frankston Aquatic Centre.

apparently this is the layout:

P.S. if you 100% absolutly HAD to put one in Tassie, out of interest, where would you put it?

post-29369-0-07659300-1374076377_thumb.j

Edited by colliric_855

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As for Coffs, whilst I realise it's relatively small, Big Banana already has a 'water play' area next to the toboggan slide up the back. They've got a great hill there that would really suit expansion a la Jamberoo style slides.

Agree with Newcastle - just as Jamberoo is far enough south to not really have major concerns about WnWS - Newcastle is just enough far north to be suitable, with a decent population base thats just far enough away from Gosford to attract that entire catchment.

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Newcastle would be a good location (not just saying that because I live there). While I will still make the trek to sydney for WnW, there are a few locations in Newcastle that a water park could be placed (any theme park actually, not just a water park). The hunter region needs to start thinking of things other than the mines, and theme parks could improve the tourism rates to the area.

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Melbourne doesn't need another, Water Parks are fairly common already.

Melbourne doesn't have any water parks. They've got a few aquatic centers with waterslides and wave pools, and a couple of small parks with water slides within daytrip distance.

But then again so does Sydney.

But that isn't stopping the largest water park in the country being built....I think the experience you get from a water park is different to a public swimming pool, and more "complete" than the likes of Funfields etc could offer.

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Melbourne doesn't have any water parks. They've got a few aquatic centers with waterslides and wave pools, and a couple of small parks with water slides within daytrip distance. But then again so does Sydney. But that isn't stopping the largest water park in the country being built....I think the experience you get from a water park is different to a public swimming pool, and more "complete" than the likes of Funfields etc could offer.

Sydney is only a days drive away from recollection(been up there on Bus before) or maybe half that. I don't think it would justify an investment in having another big Waterpark on our east coast, even if it was a rival firm and not Village Roadshow. Wet'n Wild Sydney will be a good hard road trip away in my opinion. But the point is it is a good trip that can be reasonably done overland and cheap by air as well. Rather see a different type of Theme park(you know which one, I've harped on about it for all the time I've been here) and also see Funfields or Adventure Park undergo major expansion like Jamberoo did. Some Sydneysiders would come here for a different park which would be good for both of our cities(we go there for W'nW and they come here for our different type of park). If it was Village operating both, they could offer somesort of multicity multipark deal. A closer W'nW gives us Melbournites a great reason to visit Sydney more often, a diffrent type of park down here would probably help Sydneysiders return the favour. If I was to think of a city could use a good Waterpark, would be Adelaide.... They need whatever they can get. Edited by colliric_855

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I think the point you are ignoring is that Melbournians wanting a water park experience will have to drive 8 hours to Sydney and fork out for overnight accommodation. Seems bizzare that you expect that sort of commitment from regular families and bored teens on a regular basis. This completely misses the situation where a family can just have an annual pass and pop on down a few weekends per year when the weather is nice,, as occurs in SEQ, Perth, the Illawarra etc. The strong performance and attendance figures VRTP have been getting seems to suggest getting locals to visit lots works (Rather than rely on the whims of holiday makers) I don't think having "another type of park" really matters...Water parks and theme parks are complimentary, which is why so many theme parks build waterparks next door. Elsewhere in the world, water parks seem very much a local form of entertainment....Australia is the odd one out in playing them as something you plan a holiday for.

Edited by Gazza

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I think the point you are ignoring is that Melbournians wanting a water park experience will have to drive 8 hours to Sydney and fork out for overnight accommodation. Seems bizzare that you expect that sort of commitment from regular families and bored teens on a regular basis. This completely misses the situation where a family can just have an annual pass and pop on down a few weekends per year when the weather is nice,, as occurs in SEQ, Perth, the Illawarra etc. The strong performance and attendance figures VRTP have been getting seems to suggest getting locals to visit lots works (Rather than rely on the whims of holiday makers) Elsewhere in the world, water parks seem very much a local form of entertainment....Australia is the odd one out in playing them as something you plan a holiday for.

The "annual/regular family/teenagers roadtrip" crowd I was talking about. Pretty common in this country. The "Holiday road" crew, "Caravan owners", etc. They could still have their annual pass and get up there several times in the year. It's only a half day drive. I wasn't talking about the "regular crowd" that live nearby. And I'm of the opinion that most Australians treat waterparks as "Something to do while on Holiday" rather than "the reason behind the Holiday" and that won't be different for the Sydney park, perhaps that's even what Australia's Wonderland struggled with in the end I never directly knew of anyone that ever specifically went to Sydney just for that Park(but knew of plenty of people going to GC for "the parks") although I knew plenty of people drawn to Sydney for Star City(as it was called at the time) and special events. There's already many families/teens that do a Sydney/Canberra roadtrip every few months or so. Heck I know of someone that regularly drives to Brisbane! Edited by colliric_855

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But this is not a demographic you're describing - this is just your own diverse group of ... well... group of people who can stand you enough to tell you what they do when they're avoiding you.

This is at best - 30 odd people that you're talking about and isn't representative of the broader population.

Canberra was about 4 hours from Sydney, but none of my family (who lived in either of those cities) just up and decided one day to drive to the other city for a day trip... that's FOUR hours...

By your logic - that Melbourne doesn't need a waterpark because there is already 3 waterparks on the east coast (WNW, WNWS, WWW), then by that logic - Melbourne doesn't need a theme park either - being that there is already 7 major parks on the east coast (LPM, LPS, Jamberoo, AussieWorld, DW, MW, SW...)

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But this is not a demographic you're describing - this is just your own diverse group of ... well... group of people who can stand you enough to tell you what they do when they're avoiding you. This is at best - 30 odd people that you're talking about and isn't representative of the broader population. Canberra was about 4 hours from Sydney, but none of my family (who lived in either of those cities) just up and decided one day to drive to the other city for a day trip... that's FOUR hours... By your logic - that Melbourne doesn't need a waterpark because there is already 3 waterparks on the east coast (WNW, WNWS, WWW), then by that logic - Melbourne doesn't need a theme park either - being that there is already 7 major parks on the east coast (LPM, LPS, Jamberoo, AussieWorld, DW, MW, SW...)

They're not major parks. First two are Amusement Parks(and fairly small ones at that), not Theme Parks(there is a difference formally), Jambaroo is a Fun Park, Aussie World is pretty far north, the last three are all in the Gold Coast. Melbourne needs a major bonefide theme park. Also if they "were avoiding you" then why was I invited to go with them, and why did they even tell me they were going? If they were "avoiding" me, they wouldn't tell me where to find them! Edited by colliric_855

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I honestly don't know what you are going on about colliric, I am a bored teen and I don't even go to Adventure Park when I want to. As with what Gazza and AlexB were saying, Melbourne needs a water park that is more sufficient than what Adventure Park and Funfields offer, which you couldn't even consider water parks compared to WnW.

Sydney is not a half-day journey, once cannot simply make a day trip to Sydney WnW and back in car and anyone that think they can is being ridiculous.

Melbourne needs a water park 1st and a new theme park 2nd in my opinion and you cannot dispute that Melbourne needs at least a larger water park or expansion.

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I honestly don't know what you are going on about colliric, I am a bored teen and I don't even go to Adventure Park when I want to. As with what Gazza and AlexB were saying, Melbourne needs a water park that is more sufficient than what Adventure Park and Funfields offer, which you couldn't even consider water parks compared to WnW. Sydney is not a half-day journey, once cannot simply make a day trip to Sydney WnW and back in car and anyone that think they can is being ridiculous. Melbourne needs a water park 1st and a new theme park 2nd in my opinion and you cannot dispute that Melbourne needs at least a larger water park or expansion.

An expansion yes(to Adventure Park preferrably) an entirely new park no. And by "half day journey" I ment that it takes about half a day to drive there(not that you can do a round trip in that time). And I did it, ON A BUS(departing Southern Cross), so I certainly know it is, in fact from memory by Bus that time it took 10 hours. Canberra is about two-thirds of the journey in(or at least the highway turnoff is). Edited by colliric_855

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For this daytrip you supposedly did, If it takes 10 hours on a bus are you saying you spent 10 hours on the way up, 4 hours in Sydney and 10 hours on the way home (24 hours in total)?

I didn't do a daytrip, how did you jump to that conclusion? I said I did the roadtrip so I know what it's like getting there. Stayed there for about 12 days... and got a Bus back too. Let's just take a second and be clear here, I'm talking about people driving up there on a Friday late Afternoon, and staying for the weekend... Perhaps A long weekend break. NOT A DRIVING DAYTRIP. But for Flying up a daytrip can be done. So a Daytrip is possible if it's a return flight from Sydney.

A "day" doesn't really last 24 hours colliric , it gets dark at 5:30-6:30 during non daylight saving time...

Regardless, "half a day" is universally considered 12 hours. Yes I'm going to "be that asshole that points out that Scientifically, 12 hours is approximately half a day according to the scientific definition of '1 day'" http://www.universetoday.com/14700/how-long-is-a-day-on-earth/ Edited by colliric_855

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Surely you don't believe that the average person would travel 1000km for a day at a water park and an overnight stay rather than stay home and not miss an episode of Masterchef. Perhaps you would travel to Sydney on a weekend for a theme park, but that doesn't count for the general public.

Also, flying could not result in day trips being easy, you would need to drive to and from airport and the park, would the average person be bothered just for a water park? At best it would make a weekend trip more feasible, though I'm sure people would rather stay within their own state for the weekend.

I don't think even I would do this more than once (just to see the park for the first time). Definitely not multiple times a year.

If Sydney get's a theme park within an Hour's drive or so from the main population, then why is it fair to expect that people from Melbourne should travel 1000km to visit one? They deserve a WnW just as much as any other city in Australia.

And Jacob makes a fair point about day length. Would the regular person stay up for 24 hours just to visit a theme park?

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Where I grew up was about an hour away from Port Macquarie where a small park existed called Peppermint Park. It had two large waterslides, a smaller one for young children, a swimming pool, giant bridge over a pond, some pedal carts, basketball hoops, and other sorts of stuff. My parents had become friends with people in the town and we ended up getting season passes for the park. Even though we only lived an hour away, I'd say we went maybe 4 or 5 times throughout the year.

I now live in Brisbane and it takes me just on 60 minutes to hit Movieworld, and in the last year I think I ventured down there 7 or 8 times. I obviously love theme parks more than the rest of my family, but I still haven't managed to attend even once a month.

Point being, travelling for up to 8hrs is ridiculous. I once drove from Coffs Harbour to Dreamworld, arrived at 10, spent the day there, left and got back around midnight. It ranks amongst the stupidest things I've done. Nobody could feasibly do it as a road trip.

I think Newcastle could do with a decent waterpark. I remember visiting my nan who lived on the coastal fringes just north of Newcastle and there was an aquatic centre who had just put in a waterslide - it was the best part of visiting nan. They also had a toboggan park but we never ended up visiting it. When you think about it, Newcastle has an airport that serves jets (VA, JQ) so they surely have enough of a population to support a waterpark. Depending on the train you get it can take 2 to 3hrs to reach Sydney from there, and any excuse to get traffic OFF the F3 is a good one really.

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AllegroCrab gets it.

Would you travel 8 hours to go Go Karting?

Would you travel 8 hours to go to the zoo?

Would you travel 8 hours to go to the cinema?

Would you travel 8 hours for a day at the beach?

Point is, these are all comparable legit activities you might do on a Sunday or whatever, yet you seem to think its reasonable, and that people en masse will have water park annual passes in Melbourne and will regularly fork out for airfares (or two tanks of fuel and 16 hours total driving return) and at least one night of accommodation just to go to a water park.

We're all theme park enthusiasts here, but I doubt even among a group like hours you'd have people doing what you describe.

If that were true, where were all the Wonderpass holders in Melbourne going up to WL Sydney each weekend?

I think you're misunderstanding where water parks should sit on the entertainment heirachy...Why should it have anything to do with going on holidays?

By all means, WnW and WWW will continue to do well because of their location at a holiday resort region.

Why can't it be an activity whereby someone sees that the weekend weather is going to be sunny, they can head out, have some fun, and be back in home time for master chef?

This is what I'm getting at. An annual pass for a water park might be $80 or so, you can barely even get the airfare for that.

If Australia were a 'clean slate' and you were a theme park operator looking to maximise your income, which would net you more money?

A ) A water park in one single location (Eg the Gold Coast), with everyone travelling to it.

B ) A water park in each city, each with its own pool of annual passholders and locals making regular visits.

I reckon B ) would be far more sucessful.

With Wet n Wild Sydney opening, the Gold Coast park will probably lose most of its Sydney basin visitors, but to make up for it the Sydney basin as a whole will probably be waterparking 10 times as much as it used to, because it's less of an effort.

This is called expanding the market.

An expansion yes(to Adventure Park preferrably) an entirely new park no.

Adventure park is cool and all, but it's in a really bad location for much of Melbourne/ requires a ferry crossing for people on the eastern side of the bay....It's like saying WnW Sydney isn't needed because Jamberoo is down the road at Wooloongong.

Edited by Gazza

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Depending on the train you get it can take 2 to 3hrs to reach Sydney from there, and any excuse to get traffic OFF the F3 is a good one really.

F3 isn't too bad, I do the trip a few times a year from Newcastle - Sydney, it's about an hour and a half to the end of the F3 and another half hour approximately to the M5/prospect. I'll probably make it a week long venture to Sydney when schools go back to hit up WnW and just stay in a hotel somewhere nearby.

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I think you're misunderstanding where water parks should sit on the entertainment heirachy...Why should it have anything to do with going on holidays? By all means, WnW and WWW will continue to do well because of their location at a holiday resort region. Why can't it be an activity whereby someone sees that the weekend weather is going to be sunny, they can head out, have some fun, and be back in home time for master chef? If Australia were a 'clean slate' and you were a theme park operator looking to maximise your income, which would net you more money? A ) A water park in one single location (Eg the Gold Coast), with everyone travelling to it. B ) A water park in each city, each with its own pool of annual passholders and locals making regular visits. I reckon B ) would be far more sucessful.

If you were a State Government looking to invest in a themepark for tourism purposes, would you be willing to invest in a park that would be a unique experience to the country? Or a type of park that we already have in the two states that you would probably be looking to compete with for tourism dollars? And by the way, this is the reason why Palmer-Dinosaurs and China-Downunder will probably both be built. They are weird and very unique, which means they would have some political supporters. I'm being REALISTIC here. We are not going to get a Wet 'n Wild, UNLESS the Sydney market does so fucken well it somehow sidelines the fact the Victorian Government would ONLY be approving of this on the basis of "Sydney has one, so why don't we build a bigger one than they do?". If Melbourne does get one, it won't be untill the business prospects of the Sydney park are clear. Probably at least 5 years after it's opening, or more even. A more unique themepark stands a better chance of opening quicker. Don't tell me it's " only for the Sydney market" I read the bloody proposal website. A big reason this park is happening in the first place is because the NSW government wants to woo VICTORIANS, SOUTH AUSTRALIANS and INTERNATIONALS to their state instead of going to the Gold Coast. People from these states who only planned on visiting Wet 'n Wild now have a closer cheaper option. Don't tell me that didn't factor into the State Governent giving it's stamp of approval, BECAUSE IT DID. End of arguement! Edited by colliric_855

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Just a quick reality check for you here: People don't travel halfway across the country for a water park. Only the smallest, most insignificant number of people from interstate will decide to take their holidays to the western suburbs of Sydney rather than the Gold Coast because of one water park. Here's why: The reason WnW on the Gold Coast is so successful as a destination is because there is a critical mass of theme parks:beach/other attractions to make the Gold Coast as a whole a destination. The park manages to get as many tourists as it does thanks to some clever ticketing, leveraging off the other theme parks. Now, that won't work in Western Sydney since it really doesn't have that critical mass of attractions, (Sydney does, Western Sydney does not) but there are a buttload of locals that will support the park. The Government approved the proposal because it will provide jobs and would be popular with the locals. The website might say it aims to attract tourists from around Australia because the promotional website is supposed to say things like that, but the reality is that 99% of tourists who visit the park will do so as part of a holiday that they were already taking, and maybe they'll do a deal with Sydney Attractions group for combo tickets, but make no mistake, this park is predominantly for locals of Western Sydney, and as such there's no reason why they couldn't build another WnW in Melbourne to go after locals there. I agree that The Sydney park would have to be a success before they they seriously thought about another, and it's unlikely to happen for a while since they've sunk so much money into the Sydney park, but if you think a WnW in Melbourne would be competition for the Sydney park then you are well and truly mistaken.

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If you were a State Government looking to invest in a themepark for tourism purposes, would you be willing to invest in a park that would be a unique experience to the country? Or a type of park that we already have in the two states that you would probably be looking to compete with for tourism dollars?

Why are we talking about the state governments looking to invest?

All recent water park proposals have come from the private sector off their own back...Qld Govt doesn't have anything to do with the one proposed in Hervey Bay.

The one being built in Perth at the Maze was probably because the operators decided they wanted to take the plunge and expand, not because of the WA government.

Similarly WnW Sydney was like the opposoite of African Safari World, they are building it with their own money, and are in fact giving money to the government to fund local road upgrades.

The only reason they have to get approval from the state government is because that is typically the case with developments above a certain size and value....Its the same if you were building a huge new factory, or a major expansion to a shopping centre or a marina etc...A bit beyond what a local council can approve.

Don't tell me it's " only for the Sydney market" I

It's mostly for the Sydney market then :)

Here's a nice little rundown from a media release when the park was approved http://www.nswalp.com/media/news/another-great-reason-to-visit-sydney/

Potential economic benefits

About 1.2 million residents live within a 20-kilometre radius of the site, and 3.3 million people live within a 40-kilometre radius.

An independent economic impact assessment, commissioned by Village Roadshow, concluded that the theme park would: - Support more than 300 local full-time jobs during construction; - Support more than 278 jobs once operational;

- Bring more than $340 million in tourism expenditure to Sydney during the first 10 years of operations;

- Contribute more than $500 million to the NSW economy during the first 10 years of operations; and

- Attract 900,000 people every year

– including 175,000 international and interstate visitors.

So only about 20% of visitors will be from outside NSW. Notice how they are playing up the fact that millions of people live within quite close proximity to the park....That's what really makes the park viable and provides the "base load", if it weren't for them coming every weekend, you'd have a pretty quiet park.

On the other hand, if you magically took away all the visitors from outside NSW, 725,000 is sill a pretty solid annual attendance figure. Better than Whitewater World even :P

If we examine those numbers even further, 340 million over 10 years in tourist dollars is 34 million per year.

34 million divided by 175,000 visitors from outside NSW equates to about $194 per head, which sounds about right.

A day at WnW will probably result in an extra night of accommodation in order to visit for accomodation providers, some extra money for the hospitality industry (buying dinner after a day at the park, even if it's just the local maccas), some money flowing towards transport providers to facilitate visits (Eg Coach transfers, or an extra day of car hire?)

A more unique themepark stands a better chance of opening quicker.

I disagree, and think "Tried and tested" works better than an unproven concept.

Edited by Gazza

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http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/07/the-largest-legoland-water-park-ever-will-have-50-million-bricks/ If that was the proposal for Melbourne park... YES I would agree!!! Especially if it came with the "dry" park as well! Also I kinda agree with Gazza's post. I kinda wish Gazza worked in our Tourism and planning department! But I just don't think the proposals would get up. Not saying it would be bad for Melbourne, just that I don't think we "Need" one, and I don't think it would get the needed political support. P.S. Isn't the Sydney park supposed to be the biggest when it opens? Or are they just talking about Legoland Watwerparks? Or will this be the biggest when it opens followed by the NSW park taking it almost immediately? Or is this just marketing bullshit? Edited by colliric_855

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But I don't think a water park necessarily "needs" political support...If it were an operator, building it on their own land, without any undue environmental impacts, and contributing appropriately to local infrastructure (For local road upgrades) Then I doubt they would face much opposition.

When a park operator starts asking for free land, and free money, then they'll run into trouble.

But thankfully, water parks are fairly cheap to build compared to a dry park, which probably explains why they are booming around the world, and somewhat in Australia.

Or are they just talking about Legoland Watwerparks?

Just Legoland waterparks....there's only the one at the moment, at the Californian Legoland.

If that was the proposal for Melbourne park... YES I would agree!!! Especially if it came with the "dry" park as well!

I reckon Legoland would be a logical new park for Australia.

But back to the topic...A legoland water park packaged in with a dry park would be cool.

But a Lego Water park a standalone attraction, I think the fact it focuses too much on families with kids under 12 means it's not really capturing the full market.

If you were proposing a well water park, surely the best approach would be a big water play structure for the kids, a lazy river for those who want to relax, a good mix of other slides, with flowriders and extreme slides for the teens.

Again, If you did what is tried and tested chances are it'll work.

Edited by Gazza

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