Dreamworld, the inefficient park?

[Richard]

But do you really think that the Operations Department are anything but heavily involved in the design process for new attractions? I mean, you're trying to suggest that the rides are built with absolutely no input from the Operations Department, that bad designs are just thrust upon them to be sorted out? I think not. Cyclone's queue isn't great, but that ride can operate absolutely seamlessly at the highest possible capacity dictated by the ride's design given three operators who are out to do a decent job. I've witnessed it only once ever - around September of 2002 - and boy was I impressed.

[ScReAMmachine!]

I mean, you're trying to suggest that the rides are built with absolutely no input from the Operations Department, that bad designs are just thrust upon them to be sorted out?

The Operations Department generally works around the design of new attractions, finding the best possible way to cater for guests. I think I didn't clarify that correctly.

[Richard]

But you're saying that suggesting that Operations Department have no input into the design of queue or loading systems. Nonetheless, you said that they have to find the best possible way to cater for guests. That's precisely right. Why then does Cyclone operate at about a quarter of its attainable capacity (at the best of times)? Or Giant Drop at close to a tenth of the capacity they claim it can operate at? I can assure you right now that these two issues have absolutely nothing to do with queue design.

[ScReAMmachine!]

Why then does Cyclone operate at about a quarter of its attainable capacity (at the best of times)?... I can assure you right now that these two issues have absolutely nothing to do with queue design.

Of course queue design has to do with Cyclone's capacity issue. The end of the queue is considerably far from the loading station, therefore in one person operation, capacity is reduced by the operator waiting for the train to return, unload, disable the ride, go to the queue house, let the guests through and do their required checks. If Cyclone utlilsed a Bush Beast-style queue house, actual capacity could and would increase

[Richard]

No, that's only a problem when there's inadequate staffing on the ride. Staff Cyclone properly, as I mentioned above, and you'll get. Cyclone's situation was quite different - you couldn't get a Bush Beast style queuing system for it because of space constraints if you tried. I'm not saying Cyclone has a good system either, I too think it's downright terrible, but it can and has been easily worked around with adequate staffing. Furthermore, where's this idea that the Operations Department had nothing to do with it come from? It's an assumption you've made. I really fail to see how you could possibly think that in the year or more design process that a new attraction would typically undergo, that at no stage is the Operations Department consulted with. Even so, with a single operator, there is absolutely no excuse for 15 minute dispatches as Cyclone does achieve. Five minutes is pushing it, but Cyclone regularly (i.e. offpeak weekdays year-round) operates with 15 minute dispatches. This is where the issue lies, we can ignore the bad queue systems for a minute because that's only responsible for a fraction of the problems, and can very easily be accommodated for. Let's concentrate on the fact that there's something wrong in the Operations Deparment that causes shockingly bad dispatches, even for single-operator.

[stdragon03]

Reading your article about park efficency at Dreamworld.my opinion it comes down to How many staff you can employ and the attitude of staff. After visiting CedarPoint apart from Maybe Disney no other Park would compare.On all their Coasters they would have a about six operators plus the driver.Even more on their Popular Coasters and they all wanted to be their.Encouraging riders.They had 3 trains going on most rides even the less popular rides. Dreamworld has the most Potential of all Australian parks to Develop in a Great park but only if it wants To.Employ More Enthusiastic staff.

[Shaun]

I work at Maccas and I can tell you it's no that easy Stdragon. You obviously want to hire the best staff you can but the most important thing is the way you bring them up and the environment they are working in. I would say that it's Dreamworld's 'culture' that has to be changed, not just a few single employees and the only way it can do that is if the people at the top make a hard effort to change the culture, then it will flow on down to everybody else. If the managers don't care about the park patrons why are the employees gunna care? It's the whole park that has to change, not just the few employees. That's a pretty stereotypic view but I bet you any money that that is the case with Dreamworld. So IMO (I might just be stateing the obvious) I would be blameing the managers of Dreamworld and not the poor employess who are just doing their job the way they were told too. Anyway as all ways thats just my opinion Shaun

[Gazza]

Hey Shaun, been laying lots of the 4:1 and 10:1? i work there too, and if the manager is being slack, it has a flow on effect and we can get a bit lazy too, but if the manager is telling you to be quick etc, everything runs better. DW does need to boost its attitude all around, starting with the supervisors etc. Maybe the best way to see change is for us here to send a steady flow of complaints, and maybe that will make them lift their game.

[BigMal]

i thought id disprove a lot of your "theories" i was a Ride Operator at Dreamworld. I worked Wipeout and Wild Thornburies for the Xmas 03/04 season. a lot of the capacity for rides at dreamworld works on a staffing basis as well as on a "program" basis. if they are expecting a lot of people then a high program will be set and more staff allocated per ride. during off peak times (non school holidays mid week) u will often find they are running on the lowest program with the lowest amount of staff and most queues at that stage are generally 10-15 minutes at MOST sometimes there is no wait at all (wipeout is notorious for this due to the 20 min minimum) now ur estimate for wipeout is pretty close for an off peak time. Wipeout has 3 different staffing levels. Minimum for the ride is 1 op and 1 deckhand. the deckhand works from the Cyclone end of the ride with the entry, holding area and the queues while the op has the harness controls and the ride controls in the shack. now during these 1dh times they operate off 10 min cycles. thats enough time to get 40 people through the door in 10 people stages making sure they have NO PERSONAL BELONGINGS on them (we get nazi over it trust me no one wants to go swimming in that water but hats another story) and get them all onto the ride sitting right, storage area configured properly ready for departure and the flags set, harnesses locked (which is often the most time consuming with annoying guests) and then wait for the op to go back into the shack and start the ride, during this time with 1 dh u CAN NOT add another queue into the wave for safety reasons as you can not monitor the back row of the wipeout from the shack. when the ride is over you let everyone out and the process starts again. now as you add more deck hands you can do it much quicker. with 4 deckhands you can wave load with one person watching the ride from the shack one from the holding area observation spot, one counting and one watching the end of the wave making sure no one jumps the chain. during this time u often get cycles down to 6 mins so to summarize during peak times u often get approx 400 per hour without fail on the wipeout with non peak times approx 240 per hour. it all depends on staffing level projections o and dont even go there with tower. ive heard of days where tower has pushed through 2500 people in a 9 hour day. thats a very high number with a cycle taking 2 mins, give them a break i dont see you guys going in to be a ride operator rather than just judging them. they work long hours and often in very dangerous conditions (ever tried riding vortex for 9 hours? straight like the ride op has to) and dont get much pay compared to other customer service jobs, add the abuse you get on to that from people like yourselves when u dont get ur ride in 2 mins flat its not the best job in the world but the ride ops are there because they want to be. GIVE THEM A BREAK

[Flea]

Welcome BigMal. I don't believe the ride op has to actually "ride" vortex for 9 hours straight. I always thought that the platform where the operator sits is stationary when the ride is operating - you're just watching people spin. A 9 hour shift on one ride seems pretty unrealistic to me, they've got to switch positions or rides at some stage during the day.

[BigMal]

nope the middle op area spins with the ride and the seat can move independantly vortex ops in winter may have to work the shift for nine hours during holiday periods but over summer they work a morning or afternoon shift. it is the first Level 2 ride you are given it is also the one that most of the more experienced ops come up with excuses to not work it. my mate just got his training on it last week and loves it. but thats just the way some people are. the worst ride to work imo is Thornburies or as it was more commonly known "kiddy hell" u try working in that thing for 9 hours *shudders*

[Schwarz_freak]

Just a word of caution bigmal everyone is strict of spelling.

[willsy]

Well said Bigmal. Couldnt find a better way to say it myself. Clad you came on here and said it.

[Richard]

i thought id disprove a lot of your "theories" a lot of the capacity for rides at dreamworld works on a staffing basis as well as on a "program" basis. if they are expecting a lot of people then a high program will be set and more staff allocated per ride.

There wouldn't be a park in the world that doesn't operate like this. Including Cedar Point, the comparison subject and both parks down the road. They don't have the problems with capacity that Dreamworld does.

during off peak times (non school holidays mid week) u will often find they are running on the lowest program with the lowest amount of staff and most queues at that stage are generally 10-15 minutes at MOST sometimes there is no wait at all (wipeout is notorious for this due to the 20 min minimum)

The problem with those 10-15 minute queues is that normally there might be a trainload or a trainload and a half in the queue in front of you. 15 minute dispatches on any ride is not cool.

o and dont even go there with tower. ive heard of days where tower has pushed through 2500 people in a 9 hour day. thats a very high number with a cycle taking 2 mins

Umm, there's nearly 1:30 every cycle that's disappeared from that equation. A two minute cycle includes load/unload, else it wouldn't be a cycle. So where's that extra 90 seconds going? Inefficient operations anyone?

give them a break i dont see you guys going in to be a ride operator rather than just judging them. they work long hours and often in very dangerous conditions (ever tried riding vortex for 9 hours? straight like the ride op has to) and dont get much pay compared to other customer service jobs, add the abuse you get on to that from people like yourselves when u dont get ur ride in 2 mins flat its not the best job in the world but the ride ops are there because they want to be. GIVE THEM A BREAK

Back to my first point - Dreamworld's operators are in the exact same boat as every other park in the world. To try and use that as an explanation or excuse for slow operations is arogant and narrow-sighted to say the least. I don't believe anyone's even directed any specific blame towards Dreamworld's operators, or the operations department or anything. Please also take a read of the Community Guidelines.

[willsy]

I think just comparing Aus park to an American park is a bit... Maybe you should have compared all the Aus parks against each other? Cause more people go to the aus parks and would understand/relate to it better. I dont think that many people would have been over sea's. Its kinda going like johny howard and george bush..... Anyway just my thoughts

[Richard]

Cedar Point was chosen because it's probably undeniably the best capacity park in the world. I don't think there was too much ambiguity about this in the article. Warner Bros. Movie World was mentioned in the article and came out to be over twice as efficient as Dreamworld. That there should serve as an appropriate guage for Australian parks.

[scott]

As with Slick,who mentioned the same thing at the start of this thread,when I went to Dreamworld a few days after my birthday only the west tower was runing.But I was too chicken to go on it anyway:D Also,Eureka Mine Ride,TOT,Cyclone,TRR and Rocky Hollow mean long waits.

[BigMal]

Sorry for the spelling its a force of habit for some things. I even have to spell in a special short hand at work so things get a bit different. a 2 min cycle on the ToT is the standard. when you worked out your ratio you did not take into account all the times that ToT is down for Code 6 (unsafe to operate usually wet track) or Operationals (emergency brakes, computer resets) these incidents are often 10-15 a day and often take 2mins and as long as 2 hours to fix. and the Giant Drop over the Xmas season has always had problems with the west tour. something was not right maintenance wise :/

[pandora440x]

I would like to say that I am a bit offended by Richard's recent comments. In particular this little gem: "There's not a single area or department of Dreamworld that couldn't benefit from huge improvements in this area, and it would be very simple to solve." OK, Richard, let's hear your suggestions. In doing so, can we see some costings and budgets for your suggestions? I'd then like to hear how you are going to sell these ideas to the board of directors and shareholders. Let's not forget the inclusion of staff in your consultation process. If it's so simple, then why aren't you our new CEO? There are other aspects to theme park management than capacity, or pushing the cattle through. I think you summed it up best yourself when you said: "You couldn't say what needs to be done without knowing what's going on in the first place. "

[rappa]

No Richard is right... Its not ALL about 'pushing cattle through' but it is much about getting people on rides...not the same thing. And we all know that people are not going to wait forever in line and get pissed off but get to the end and go "oh but hey the guy at the front was very nice." They are going to remember the wait, there has to be a balance. IMO DW's customer service does not make up for poor capacity. IMO also this is mainly only a problem on Cyclone... Richard is just saying, he doesn't know all the facts so he can't say how to improve the situation. That doesn't mean it doesn't need to be improved!

[pandora440x]

Hit it on the head, friend. There has to be a balance, and there is. Just because it's a balance you don't like, dosen't mean that the people charged with the responsibility of finding that balance have got it wrong. How about the waiting periods during February? You don't hear anyone complaining about the "balance" then? I think that it's something to think about the next time you are standing 3 deep at the supermarket, while 50% of the checkouts are closed. Or the bank. Welcome to the revolution!

[rappa]

No the Supermarket is no acceptable and the Bank CERTAINLY isn't. No I don't think the balance is right, especially on Cyclone and why should someone pay the same admission in non peak times as they do in february is this is what you are saying? Are you saying their money is worth less than people coming in peak periods? If you are going to say that wait times are made up for by great customer service, you have to make sure that there is great customer service...I'm afraid there isn't. I'm not condeming all staff but there are a lot... Clearly this is not something that can't be achieved...look at Movie World. I still find those stuff some of the most friendly and fun you'll ever find and they achieve good capacity. And I'm not just comparing to Aussie parks here either.

[Richard]

You're kidding yourself if you think there's not a problem, or that it's a problem that can't be easily fixed. How narrow-minded do you need to be to actually put up arguments to defend Dreamworld? It goes to show the culture they must be promoting at Dreamworld if your attitude is to vehemently defend the place rather than opening your eyes. I appreciate passion for your employer etc., but that doesn't mean to turn a blind eye to a noted problem. Tell me why Sea World and Movie World down the road, two otherwise more or less identical parks, have pretty well got it right? With few or no exceptions their rides run far more efficiently, AND I hate to break it to you, but their staff are also on the whole friendlier. You're not paying to have a good time when you go to the bank. It is bad when that does happen, but the thing is it's not the norm. On the other hand you can go to Dreamworld almost any day of the year and you get the same thing almost regardless. In case you're unsure, 15 minute dispatches on Cyclone aren't cool. Hate to break it to you, but capacity is probably one of the most important aspects to theme park operation. Why are you suggesting that it must come at the cost of something? Disney parks are undeniably the best capacity parks in the world, meanwhile their staff are known as some of the friendliest out there, and you'll be hard pressed to find a better experience than that of a Disney park. Closer to home we have the Warner Village parks, where these exact same things apply.

[pandora440x]

Wow Richard, look at you go! I'll make some observations tomorrow on the following rides: Giant Drop, Tower of Terror, Cyclone, Wipeout. I'll then report the observed capacities of these rides tomorrow (Tuesday) night. These capacities will include the operating cycle time (broken down into ride time, load and unload times), and the daily guest numbers based on these cycle times. I will then have my say for the final time on the capacity debate. I actually joined this web site to have some fun, and learn what other theme park fans thought. So far, however, it seems that you think I just want to defend DW, which isn't my aim in my own time. Next post tomorrow night...

[Richard]

I think from our point of view, dispatch times and hourly capacity are far more useful than daily guests. Naturally, total daily guests on a given ride would be how a park would view it for the purposes they are trying to achieve, but it's not all that relevant to this discussion. It's only a multiplication/division of 7 anyway, so no big dramas there. I've decided to split this capacity debate into the relevant thread. Go to the "If you ran DW..." thread to post your opinions on that topic.