Jobe

Luna Park Sydney- Future rides and attractions

63 posts in this topic

The recent welcome news that LPS Hair Raiser drop ride has been formally approved is a welcome sigh of relief for the park. Last year, Peter Hearne, the Managing Director of LPS, stated in an interview that the park had a 5 year plan to reinvest in some new rides and attractions. He acknowledged that some of the current ride line up is aging and fast approaching its use by date.The Hair Raiser was the first attraction of this promised reinvestment to materialise. However, the planning bungle associated with the installation of the ride has probably seen the plans deferred from their original timeline. Now that the issue with Hair Raiser has been put to bed, LPS can now once more focus on the future.

The purpose of this thread is twofold. Keeping such speculation as grounded in reality as possible, I would like to explore firstly, what choices for a new coaster could LPS possibly install? Secondly, what new flats would you introduce, and which of the current rides would you perhaps retain?

In making these choices, please try to keep these suggestions and speculation as real as could possibly occur. In making these suggestions, consideration of LPS's past ( its chequered history with its surrounding residents is well documented ), any heritage details must be acknowledged in any planning ( for example, the demolition and removal of Coney Island to install a huge coaster simply will not happen) and also space considerations and ride placement is a must.

If you have a grand master plan for LPS, then by all means lets hear it. I would be particularly interested in some of the longer term members views on this topic. 

I would love for this thread to generate some great ideas that could then be possibly presented to LPS as a discussion point. It would also be fantastic if somehow a representative from LPS could post in the forums and add value to the discussion, much like Mark Shaw does for Adventure World and representatives from Jamberoo and Scenic World have done in the past. 

So- what flat ride out there do you feel would be a perfect addition to LPS lineup?

Is there a coaster that would be a brilliant inclusion?

Think outside the box certainly but above all, lets try and keep it real.

I look forward to any discussion generated!B)

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In terms of compact coasters, my choices would be.

-Compact Eurofighter, similar to Iron Shark.

-S&S Free Spin similar to Batman at SF Fiesta Texas

-Premier Sky Rocket II similar to Tempesto at Busch

Interesting-I like the Iron Shark very much. Its a great little compact coaster that does not take up much real estate. 

I love the idea of the S&S Free Spin also...to me LPS is crying out for a coaster of this stature.

The only problem is the lack of space. Where would you install them? Does the installation come at the cost of space for other rides?

Sure Maloney's Corner certainly has available space for a coaster with a good sized footprint but it also currently occupies the majority of other rides in the park- rides that if this space is taken, in all likelihood will not have room to stay.

In my mind, any coaster install has to be sympathetic to the space available and also to the real estate taken up by other attractions. It has to be a good balance.

Keeping this in mind, my preference would be to see the Tumblebug removed/relocated and a compact coaster put in this space. This then would leave Maloneys's Corner for a new selection of flats.

Alternatively, a small coaster could be placed at the very rear of Coney Island in Maloneys Corner, whilst still leaving the northern end free for flat rides.

Does anyone have any ideas for freeing up space at LPS?

 

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An Iron Shark clone or similar would be incredible. I'd rather see a eurofighter than a free spin or sky rocket II. The eurofighter looks and rides like a classic roller coaster, but the other two seem to be sacrificing something to fit into that small space. That said, the other two are still highly appropriate and viable options. It won't stop me from paying to ride them multiple times.

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I'd like to see minimal, and very restricted use of 'out over the harbour' elements, to get around the heritage elements that cannot be touched.

Maloneys should be used, but it should be used in such a way so as to ensure travelling attractions (like Extreme Speed Machine and other large temporary rides) can still fit through - under a top hat element for example. The ride should also SKIRT the boundary as much as possible, so that other rides can still operate inside of it - like Scenic Railway at LPM that runs the park boundary.

Make it modern, but THEME it old school... like California Screamin fits the seaside pier woodie theme despite being steel...

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I agree with Alex, keep it in tune with the retro theme of what's left of the original park. Get rid of that Big Top venue OR do what they did with the original Big Dipper & sink supports through it ( they did this with the old Ghost Train & River Caves ) & run it above the venue. This would give them plenty of room for a nice sized coaster.

Edited by DisneyDoll

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Much as I dislike it - the Big Top is a very popular venue for LPS to operate, and having such a large open space means it can be used any way they want to use it. It also brings punters into the park to spend money on the park attractions whilst waiting for the show to start \ and \ or after the show has ended. You can sell 2 unlimited wristbands to a guy on a date with a girl just so they can take a ride on the ferris wheel before the show starts...

I don't know what the current arrangements are, but I know they used to have an 'in-house' staging company working out of the venue which were well known not to be cheap. Not sure if they still do but either way - I can't see them axing big top whilst it's still a money spinner. (Plus - it gives 'something new' to bring people back into the park far more than a coaster which will get on in years)

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 (Plus - it gives 'something new' to bring people back into the park far more than a coaster which will get on in years)

Really?...It wouldn't bring me back. As I said, they could send the supports through the Big Top & run the coaster over the top of it. They may need to adjust the ceiling height but I feel it could be done. The park is desperate for a rollercoaster, yes it will age, the original one was there for 44 years & was still the most popular ride at the park when it closed. There is also another venue on the opposite side of the park nearer the water so I think two venues & no coaster is stupid.

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Sorry - let me explain in a bit more detail... Big Top is a performance venue. This means that what it offers changes regularly. So you might visit one weekend to see a rock band perform, and two weeks later, a sporting event, a month after that, a film festival... this is what i mean by 'bring people back' - there is always something different.

For instance: This weekend - Parents of toddlers and preschoolers will flock into the park to see Hi-5 perform. Then we've got an MMA fighter event. stars of Dance Moms after that, and then the Sydney Roller Derby league. The Russian ballet is in October and UB40 is playing there in November.

These are just some examples of what the venue is used for.

In terms of venue layout - having a large open unobstructed space is useful for many different purposes. I won't detail them all, but instead if you're keen to see how it can be used differently - here's a link: http://www.bigtopsydney.com/hire-the-venue

Now - imagine these floorplans, with giant support poles shot through the roof, obscuring the view of the concert venue, or potentially smack bang in the middle of the 'stage'... depending on the layout:

generaladmissionmode.jpg

 

theatremode.jpg

 

How many times do you visit a park, and decide not to do a particular ride, because "we've done that one heaps of times before" ? Unless the coaster is ZOMFG! it can be skipped by repeat guests... particularly if the line is too long. It's not a reason for you to return to the park TIME after TIME.

As for saying Crystal Ballroom is reason enough not to have Big Top - CB is nowhere near the venue that BT is. BT is soundproof, complete blackout, and has the height and rigging to stage massive scale events. CB is heritage listed, and is more for the harbour view than the event you're attending. It's a great wedding venue... but it can't do what Big Top can do.

Having been a staging manager working for previously mentioned in-house staging company, I return to my original statement that Big Top will remain so long as it is financially viable to do so, and they will not compromise the flexibility of the venue just so they can build a coaster over the top of it.

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Thank you Alex but there is no need to mansplain this to me. I understand what an entertainment venue is, I am also aware of the Heritage Listing of all the older structures at the park. Just so you know, I’ve actually been to the Big Top on many occasions over the past 11 years, I am a Sydney sider & my old work used to have functions there each year. My point is that Luna Park is an amusement park & as such, should be that first & a concert, band , stage show venue last…. That is my opinion & I feel the space taken up by the Big Top robs the park of much needed space for rides. It’s there & seems to work for them but there is no reason that everyone has to like it or think it a worthwhile trade-off for more rides & especially a much needed coaster.

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My second response was mainly to explain why they couldn't just shoot the support poles through the venue, as it didn't seem like you understood it's purpose, as you restated that suggestion in your reply to my first response. And I really don't feel like you understand my point - because you're still arguing for BigTop's removal, or to dramatically impede it's abilities by shooting support poles through it.

Also - You say BigTop wouldn't bring you back to the park, despite it (in your own words) bringing you back to the park "on many occasions over the past 11 years".

I get your complaint about real estate - but the simple fact is that it is an income producing asset that is worth far more to the park than a coaster... and here's why...

The venue can accommodate from 1680 up to 2950 patrons, charging anywhere from $13 up to $500 a ticket (based on current schedule). So gross take from the venue is potentially $21,000 to $1,475,000. It is more reasonably going to be somewhere in the middle of that.

Naturally the promoter is going to take a fair whack of that, but clearly it can make money for it to have events there. Looking at the calendar, on average major events have a two day downtime in between - so one day bump out, and one day bump in is all they need between most events. With quick turnaround - they can have at least 3 events a week. 

I can only speculate as to the actual venue hire fee, and it likely differs depending on the kind of event (For example - Hi-5 probably doesn't need extra security... but MMA night fighting probably does), but even if we say it's an average of $10,000 per event - thats still $30,000 each week, or $1.5m per year. (Multi day events would of course increase the revenue).

Considering the park sells unlimited ride passes for around $45 per day or $99 for an annual pass - they would need to sell almost 16,000 annual passes to make similar revenue... Now sure - they'd probably do that in the first year after launching such a great blockbuster rollercoaster that will remain the park's most popular attraction for many years to come... but for how many years can they continue to rely on the roller coaster to bring in 16000 extra passes?

Nowhere near as long as BigTop can continue to bring in that sort of revenue.

When you consider that Big Top's 3-per-week events would easily bring in over 350,000 people annually of varied and wide demographics... i know where my efforts are going...

s a business decision... as a financial decision - Big Top makes far more sense than demolishing it in place of a coaster...and (most importantly) - they NEED to make good business decisions and good financial decisions in order for them to be able to continue to bring new rides to the park - the very thing you are advocating for.

LPS will get one chance to build a big, quality coaster. Once it's there, there is no more room to build another one. So for them to get the same value out of a new ride, they'll have to remove the old one.

LPS also DOES have a coaster... but beyond and above all of that - Jobe's suggestions at the start of this thread suggested realistic options. I put it to you that for the reasons stated above, removing, or altering Big Top to accommodate a coaster is not realistic.

Edited by AlexB

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I'd like to see minimal, and very restricted use of 'out over the harbour' elements, to get around the heritage elements that cannot be touched.

Maloneys should be used, but it should be used in such a way so as to ensure travelling attractions (like Extreme Speed Machine and other large temporary rides) can still fit through - under a top hat element for example. The ride should also SKIRT the boundary as much as possible, so that other rides can still operate inside of it - like Scenic Railway at LPM that runs the park boundary.

Make it modern, but THEME it old school... like California Screamin fits the seaside pier woodie theme despite being steel...

Agree 100% here AlexB. Any coaster that is ever introduced to LPS HAS to be sympathetic to the park's historic elements. It would be extremely costly, however , to allow for this and any coaster would have to be a custom designed if it was going to be of any large design.

 

I agree with Alex, keep it in tune with the retro theme of what's left of the original park. Get rid of that Big Top venue OR do what they did with the original Big Dipper & sink supports through it ( they did this with the old Ghost Train & River Caves ) & run it above the venue. This would give them plenty of room for a nice sized coaster.

Unfortunately,whilst I agree with you in principle, the fact of the matter is that both the Big Top and The Crystal Palace function centres are very important cash cows for the park.They are not going anywhere in the foreseeable future Without these, it is debatable whether the park would survive without the financial backing that these two venues give. When the park re-opened in 2004 , there was a concsious decision to diversify the income flow and keep the park as close to a fun park as possible. Whilst both venues have helped to make the park financially viable, I do feel that there is an imbalance between the amusement park  and the functions side of the business.  Another purpose of this thread is to search for ideas and actions that we can explore and point the park towards hopefully in an effort to redress this balance.

In saying all that, and keeping in mind that the Big Top is not going anywhere, there are really only 2 places where a new coaster could go.

I would certainly move the Tumblebug and utilise this space for a compact coaster- but what could we fit up there?

In my mind there are not too many options. 

Having looked at Gazza's suggestion of the Iron Shark, I am more than convinced that this would be a brilliant option for the park. I am fairly certain that this footprint would fit in the Tumblebug space. this I think would be top of my wishlist.

Krater_coaster.thumb.jpg.ca7a0bf73a3eb16

Iron_Shark.thumb.jpg.2daf120b04d3bb39424

Of course I would also love to see a Maurer Sohne spinner and these look like they can be a lot of fun. These too, are fairly compact and could probably be accommodated in this space. I have never ridden one though, and would love to hear from someone who has? ( Gazza what is your opinion on these? ). 

Whirlwind.thumb.jpg.bcc010412927cd425d0b

Spider.thumb.jpg.fe934008758d42ae6cdf1db

And although El Locos have attracted attention for all the wrong reasons with Green Lantern's incident, who wouldn't want to ride one at LPS? This would also be a great addition and one whose footprint should fit in the required space.

Crazy_Bird.thumb.jpg.cfb33465749872668adp21865.thumb.jpg.229c11198b184124023c6e2

The other coaster that to me would also be a good fit would be the Zamperla Motocoaster. They seem to offer good thrills in a tight and compact package and would also fit in the space required. Once again, I have not had the pleasure of riding one of these models so would appreciate any input on them ( Gazza I know you have ridden one at Darien Lake- thoughts?)

Zamperla_Moto_Coaster.thumb.jpg.12b9b878Moto_coaster_from_air.thumb.jpg.2d008a43

 

Of course one of these could easily be added somewhere in the park as well......

half-pipe2.thumb.jpg.78b43dc44b19ea82ec4

If LPS were to get another coaster, I think it would be closer in spirit to one of these examples. I cannot see them doing the custom layout option with cost and space being the prohibitive factor.

Would you guys be happy with any of these options for a second coaster at LPS?

Given that a few of their flats are aging and need replacing, what would you guys like to see introduced to complement this second coaster ( whatever it would be) and the Wild Mouse?

Spider.jpg

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Yeah a Vekoma Boomerang would be pretty cool. I havn't ridden one before but I understand they can get pretty rough, but we havnt had a boomerang coaster in Australia since Wonderland (that I am aware of). It may not hurt to add one into the park. 

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Of course I would also love to see a Maurer Sohne spinner and these look like they can be a lot of fun. These too, are fairly compact and could probably be accommodated in this space. I have never ridden one though, and would love to hear from someone who has?

I rode Crush's Coaster at Disneyland Paris and from this can tell you the ride experience is incredible (even without the Disney touch). It is smooth, the wide sweeping turns and steep inclines are thrilling and it is a perfect family coaster. This is certainly one of my favourite type of roller coasters.

In terms of your other options, some of them are too similar to other Australian coasters for my liking, but each to their own :)

 

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Would a Vekoma Boomerang fit in somewhere? I think it would be cool theming for LPS as well because the boomerang is an aboriginal hunting tool. I can imagine them going all sorts of places with that!

Yeah a Vekoma Boomerang would be pretty cool. I havn't ridden one before but I understand they can get pretty rough, but we havnt had a boomerang coaster in Australia since Wonderland (that I am aware of). It may not hurt to add one into the park. 

A Vekoma Boomerang coaster would definitely fit in Maloney's corner quite easily with both drops going over Coney Island. However they are a design that is over 30 years old ( the ride debuted in 1984). Its not a bad idea but I think I would rather see a newer design be installed. Just my opinion.

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For flats I wouldn't mind a Sky Fly, an Air Race or a Power Surge. A blue sky dream for a coaster would be a custom built Intamin Mega-Lite. That would top all the coasters in the Gold Coast including Superman.

I could also suggest buying a used Schwarzkopf Looping Star since their forceful, compact and overall thrilling but many of them have exceeded their design life.

I'm pretty keen on the Iron Shark clone- it's small, cheap and cheerful for a park as small as LPS.

I agree with Alex, keep it in tune with the retro theme of what's left of the original park. Get rid of that Big Top venue OR do what they did with the original Big Dipper & sink supports through it ( they did this with the old Ghost Train & River Caves ) & run it above the venue. This would give them plenty of room for a nice sized coaster.

DisneyDoll, the Big Dipper (wood and steel) never had supports going through the Big Top. The Big Top was designed to replace the Big Dipper.

Would a Vekoma Boomerang fit in somewhere? I think it would be cool theming for LPS as well because the boomerang is an aboriginal hunting tool. I can imagine them going all sorts of places with that!

No. Just no. Boomerangs are horribly rough (when they have Arrow trains) and the majority of them are really really old. 

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I have a feeling an El Loco wouldn't quite fit anywhere, but I would be very happy to see one if they could fit it in.

A Boomerang? Not so much. Wouldn't it be really hard to find one that isn't on its last legs? They could never install one and be guaranteed that it'll run for more than 5 years.

Perhaps a similar style of shuttle coaster could be appropriate. How big are Intamin's impulse coasters?

Wicked Twister is 206m length in total. Subtract its height (66m) twice and it is approximately 74m along the ground. It's actually a bit longer than this due to the curvature of the transition between horizontal and vertical. This is the biggest of all of the impulse coasters, and they can get smaller with tighter turns, making it more forceful than Wicked Twister.

500px-Possessed_(Dorney_Park)_full_layou

This photo is of Possessed at Dorney park & Wildwater Kingdom, which is 215m long, subtract its height of 55m twice and it is approximately 105m long.

Steel Venom at Valleyfair is 190m long and 56m high. Giving it a 78m long footprint.

All of these rides travel faster than 100km/h (even though Intamin's website says Max Speed is "up to 100km/h"

So clearly this ride is quite flexible and could be custom fitted for Luna Park depending on whether they want a tall and forceful, small and forceful, tall and not as forceful or short and not as forceful.

Having had a quick look at google earth, these rides are pretty massive, and Luna Park is a tiny place. It'd definitely fit if you got rid of the entire midway and made people walk underground :P

Food for thought anyhoo.

As for flat rides, I LOVE the idea of an Intamin half-pipe. A SurfRider clone would be mad. I don't think that ride gets enough credit.

Edited by AllegroCrab

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Hey guys, just a tip if you want to know if a ride will fit...there's google earth and Google maps, both of which have measuring tools.

Oh, to address a couple of points.

Flat rides....a starflyer, or some flying scooters would be great.

As for the Maurer spinning coasters, decent, but I prefer the custom ones I've ridden.

The Zamperla motor coaster..... Fun, but there's better choices for the space.

I reckon the park could do a family shuttle coaster that just threads through a spare bit of space....Check out Ben 10 at Drayton Manor, or Rewind Racers.

As for Boomerangs, well, you can always fabricate a new one, like the one at Power park in Finland. Boomerangs with the new gen trains do run smoothly.

Edited by Gazza

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DisneyDoll, the Big Dipper (wood and steel) never had supports going through the Big Top. The Big Top was designed to replace the Big Dipper. 

You are incorrect, the original Big Dipper was made of wood & ran across the top of both the ghost Train & River Caves rides. This was between 1935 & 1979 when a fire that originated in the Ghost Train destroyed that side of the park. You are talking about the metal replacement coaster that is now in Dreamworld not the original one pictured below on the left.

 

Also - You say BigTop wouldn't bring you back to the park, despite it (in your own words) bringing you back to the park "on many occasions over the past 11 years".

Yes Alex I did say that, I was the coordinator for the social events in my company so I had no choice, attendance was mandatory & the company wanted to use Luna Park as it's venue. If I had the choice I would've picked a different place to have them.

I also said that " Luna Park is an amusement park & as such should be that first & a concert, band, stage show venue last & again, that is my opinion.  I am more than aware that it generates a lot of revenue for the park but once again, I don't have to like it.

 

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