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Just to be clear, there's no if. The whole discussion has been about an international park chain building locally. That's even the title of the thread. Yes, it could. But as i've already said, most of those parks were built and established in a different time. As for the population You've said this before: The problem I have with these figures is - building on the site of 350,000, with a further 700,000 to the north of it, while having the 5 Million from Sydney around 90 minutes away (or more for the southern areas) doesn't make sense. It isn't "smack bang" in the middle, its on the northern fringe. Building out near Badgery's, or somewhere near Castlereagh would make more sense - build near the 5 Million locals, not the 350,000 locals. The difference of course being that in both population migration numbers and tourism numbers, people want to be in Brisbane and the Gold Coast. I don't even know many sydneysiders that want to be in Gosford. I buy this if you build in the sydney basin. If you build 90 minutes away, then you also need to include the Sunshine Coast, Ipswich, half of the Lockyer Valley, Somerset, Noosa, and half a dozen other council areas. The population is still smaller - but again it isn't a fair comparison and what you're suggesting is akin to counting all of greater brisbane when you're building halfway to Gympie. Bahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha Don't make the mistake of conflating a need with a want. The state has managed fine for 20 years without it. Even when the likes of Ammar Khan proposed it, few MPs gave it more than lip service. Outside of an enthusiast viewpoint, I don't think NSW "needs" a theme park, especially one the size of Wonderland. Wet N Wild Sydney never made its target numbers. While Raging Waters may be doing better, its arguably because VRTP took the loss on the establishment in the first place. Plenty of locals visit that park. Plenty of others avoid it like the plague, and it's in the centre of the catchment. Dreamworld do it too. Why else? because the $99 passes showed both companies that people won't pay $400 for an annual pass, but will pay something less than that. They drop the price to get people through the gate because people just weren't coming at the higher price points. Those who holiday on the GC typically stay less than 30 minutes from the parks. Nobody is staying at North Lakes for their GC holiday. And those who don't have cars fly into the airport and use buses, which are also 30 minutes away. Objection your honour, asked and answered. They had existing infrastructure, it was already an attraction - it was just upgraded. Big upgrades yes, but it was not a greenfields site. If Wonderland was opened in Somersby, I would argue it wasn't targeting 6 million people. I'd honestly call it a fools errand. Unless it had a significant IP behind it, it wouldn't work. You're stacking the pros, but you're pretending that the cons don't exist because of what other parks did 40 years ago that wouldn't work today. The cons have been displayed for you pretty clearly. they also stack up. Perhaps its a balancing act and the line between them is a thin one, but other places, better positioned near international airports, in the centre of 5 million people instead of 90 minutes away from them are far more likely. I do think your bias has shown a little too strongly and you need to acknowledge that may be playing a factor. Universal has recently been playing with the idea of smaller experiences and facilities. I think the main reason people are fielding the universal idea is that they've already shown an interest in doing so. Wow, and both of these options were very close to established major airports, weren't they?

European gondola ride? naa… just Tokyo DisneySea

While I agree with everyone in saying that Disney would too be my first choice as their Japan parks are probably the best in the world (DisneySea is in a league of its own being probably one of the best theme parks in the world). And while Disney does have its classic dark rides, it has so much to offer and has some rides that you can’t find anywhere else in the world. However, if you and your group would rather more exciting thrill rides and appreciate the thrill more than the theming, then Universal is the way to go. Not to knock Universals theming because the Wizarding World is insane and all of the rides have been done very well, however Disney just takes it to the next level. These were my first B&Ms too. Flying Dinosaur is an absolute must, I’d pick this ride over anything else in the park because of how insane it is. Hollywood Dream is fun, but if the queue is too long (even with Fast Track) I’d prioritise other things first because I didn’t find it anything amazing.

And it absolutely is. And with unique and remarkable rides like Beauty & the Beast and Pooh’s Hunny Hunt, so too is TDL. Flying Dino is probably my favourite coaster in the world (granted I have not done a coaster trip of the US). Spider-Man was so good too, such a shame it is now closed forever. I’ll always be grateful the timing of our time meant we got to ride it before closure (as well as Space Mountain at TDL)

My family and I went 4 years ago, if it was up to me, I’d be choosing to go to DisneySea over USJ and Disney Land. Universal was by far the busiest theme park out of all of them. Similar to say how shoulder to shoulder Movie world gets in holiday period x100. DisneySea was hands down amazing, the theming, the rides were second to none. USJ is great and has wicked rides like the Flying Dinosaur and Spider-Man, but it’s far to busy to really enjoy everything they have to offer.

We go next week. We've been up to our eyeballs in research for the past year. The one consistent thing we've come across is people underestimating what Disney has to offer. Followed by people who have actually been Everyone i've spoken to who has been says the park (TDS) is unmissable. Everyone. TDRExplorer did a video a few weeks back showing the morning crowds, and with timestamps he did a few loops of the monorail to show just how quickly all those crowds dispersed. Universal has the same crowds, but it is made worse by the fact that they don't open at the hour advertised. See this part just doesn't make sense. Your family think the queues at Disney are too much, but you're planning to get to Universal that early... SMH.

Oh I get picking USJ over TDL, I’m just saying i wouldn’t then pick another park over it at well.

I highly recommend Nagashima SpaLand have been twice in 2019 and 2023 for the most part wait times were low when I visited. I do believe they had a Que Skip option on a few rides, single purchase per person available from the kiosks around the park.

The reason we are picking USJ over TDL/TDS is because my family doesn't think waiting that long is worth it "to take pictures of Mickey and Minnie". Also Space Mountain will be closed for refurb, and I don't want to miss out on that. My family also looked at the Fantasyland dark rides and thought "they all look the same" And we only have a limited time there so can only pick one or the other, so we decided to pick USJ as there is Mario, Jurrasic Park, Harry Potter etc. and for me there are Flying Dinosaur and Hollywood Dream, which would likely be my first B&Ms. And as Nagashima is closer we could make our way out there, as a thrill junkie I would like that as I would get my first RMC, first (and likely only) Giga/longest coaster in the world, as well as the rare Looping Star (only 4 operating). Also there is only 3 Togo Ultratwisters worldwide which Nagashima has one.

Those long queues to get in clear very fast, and you’ll be met with equally long queues on entry at USJ. Difference is once you are in DL/DS it’s so large the crowds kind of disperse and it doesn’t seem as busy except for parade times and the marquee rides, whereas USJ is just nuts busy, always. I personally wouldn't consider doing any other park over TDL/DS other than USJ. For USJ as magician said, express passes are a must, they sell out super fast as well so you need to be ready to purchase 2 months out. Park front hotel is fantastic and at the gate and plenty of food options. Zero need to be there at 5:30 mate. 7-7:30am is fine and will get you into SNW before timed access starts, allowing you to use the timed access with your express passes later for a second entry. Technically could get a 3rd as well through the app.

Yes, that is what we are planning to do, get the 7 Ride Pass with SNW, Harry Potter, Flying Dinosaur and Hollywood Dream. We have also talked about staying at The Park Hotel the night before and queueing up at 5/5:30 as the queues get very busy based on videos we have watched, then quickly speedwalk to SNW before the crowds come. P.S Any tips for anyone who has been to Nagashima about the queues etc?

There are people on here who have more experience visiting these parks, but from my experience, both Universal and Disney can be just as busy as each other and there can be just as long of queues to get into Universal (Disneys queues just make good content online because of the vantage points you can get on the entrance). If you’re visiting Universal, you should definitely invest in Fast Pass because it’s near impossible to get on a decent amount of rides without it. When I visited, Flying Dinosaur had just opened, but there was a 5 hour general queue and with Fast Pass it still took about 40 minutes (which is obviously significantly better, but just for perspective).

As you heard a bit ago, me and my family are planning to go to Japan in late 2025/2026. Some updates on that: we have planned to go to Universal but have cut out Disney as one saw the long lengths in the queue to get in. Instead, we are looking at another park to go closer to Osaka. After doing some research via RCDB, we have found two options to be the other park alongside Universal: Nagashima Spaland or Hirakata Park: HIRAKATA PARK Pros: Multiple thrill coasters Actually in Osaka/Only 48 minutes Likely less busy than the other options Intamin Woody Explore more of Osaka Cons: Less coasters No RMC or Giga Also Wild Mouse at Nagashima NAGASHIMA SPA LAND Pros: Most amount of coasters in Japan Second tallest coaster outside of US RMC One of only 4 Schwarzkopf Looping Stars and one of only 10 Shuttle Loops Explore the area around the park Cons: Longer to get to and most likely busier (1h 56m) Also a flying coaster at USJ May be too tall for Steel Dragon 2000 Which one would you recommend?

The Gold Coast parks are normally pretty full, and seeing growth and investment. I'd say that Australia likes theme parks well enough, but the population can't support a Disney (or indeed a Universal). Compare Disneyland Paris's 2019 attendance (about 9.75 million) to the population of Australia (26 million). And that's Paris, widely regarded as Disney's "black sheep". Movie World got 1.4 million visitors in 2016. Considering the population of Australia, size of the country etc that's not bad. Now if suddenly every third Australian said they'd visit once a year, or multiple times per year, Disney would be here like a shot. But there are lots of other countries who'd say the same. We do know Disney has done their homework - the Sydney project (more of an entertainment district) nearly went through some years back, and apparently they also scouted out Avalon. But ultimately, they did their homework and decided that the numbers didn't quite work out.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words well in this case its only worth 1 word (Idiot).

Since when does population=allergies?

In the bin

Do I need to say this again, there will never be a Disney Park in Australia in our life times, there will never be a Universal theme park in Australia in our lifetime, heck there will never be a Six Flags parks in our lifetimes because apparently Australians are somehow allergic to theme parks based on all the evidence that's come before. Australian sucks THE END.

wow *yawn*...

it’s already weak to pull the ‘your opinion’ card, but especially so when this entire recent issue has been your opinion on the event time needing an extra click you couldn’t perform

Yeah I get your logic here if we were specifcally talking about an attraction that was targeting international tourism as its main drawcard. That is 100% true. Specifically if its Disney or Universal or even Legoland. However, when Wonderland was opened , it was built for the local population and market. The same could also be said for Dreamworld , Seaworld and Movieworld even now. ( with the exception of the NZ market). The majority of their marketing is pushed towards a domestic target audience with internationals being drawn there as a secondary consideration. I am thinking of a new build park at Somersby that is also targeting just the local population as their major concern. This precludes the need for being near a major airport. However, being in the best possible space for local population visits is the most attractive option here and hence why the Somersby site should be considered to be a viable option. Being smack bang in the middle of a catchment area of 6 million people is a strong reason to consider. This catchment area is also twice the size of the local population base for Brisbane and the Gold Coast combined-namely Brisbane at 2.2 million and the Gold Coast at 600,000. 3 Million versus 6 million is a powerful argurment for consideration when looking at this. This certainly evens out when you take into account the number of tourist visits for the Gold Coast over a year at 3.7 million but it certainly places both sites on a fairly even keel in terms of catchment numbers. These numbers do not include any out of town tourist numbers that would also potentially visit the site from Sydney tourist numbers of which there would be a further 3 million to add into the mix ( both domestic and international) Time wise lets look- Newcastle/Hunter to Somersby - 80 minutes Sydney CBD to Sommersby - 70 minutes Blacktown to Somersby - 62 minutes Parramatta to Somersby -64 minutes Even Campbelltown to Somersby is around 90 minutes. The entire Sydney basin is within easy reach of a site at Somersby. All of these major population bases are connected by far better roads than when Wonderland was built in the 80's. The infrastructure to get to Somersby are on Motorways that are acknowledged as some of the best in the nation. Travelling by car is not an impediment here since the times to travel are more than reasonable for a major attraction for any of the locals that live in the target catcment area. We have already seen that people will travel locally for a decent attraction. We know the need in NSW for a theme park the size of Wonderland is needed. Local people within that 6 million catchment base could easily fit this in for a day trip and it would be far cheaper than travelling to the Gold Coast by flight. Its easier to organise and we know that locals will first and foremost , support their local park. Why else do VRTP offer a local pass for their properties? The Gold Coast parks do not have fantastic public transport options- its mainly buses or coaches with no rail options. Light Rail will be a good addition to this if it ever gets off the ground but the majority of people drive to the parks. This would be the same for any attraction at Somersby and would be very comparable to the GC sites. Of course, PT would be established if there was an attraction and its only 15 minutes to Somersby from Gosford Train station where a major hub could be easily established. Jamberoo and Gumbuya are certainly further from their customer bases and yet people are still willing to travel to them. Both parks are surviving and thriving. Have they had time to establish this? Certainly for Jamberoo but I would argue that Gumbuya has forged their own identity and loyal customer base very recently in the last few years since they expanded and transformed into the park that it is. There is nothing stopping a new attraction/park from doing the same thing right now. Gumbuya has proven this and it would of course be dependent on what was offered. If Wonderland was opened today on a site in Somersby do we really think that it would not attract a sizeable interest and following from the 6 million people it was targeting? I dont think so - the interest in it would be huge and local people and families would definitely travel for it since that it is quite reasonable to do so. I just think that IF NSW were to ever get another ground up theme park, a site at Somersby would have to figure in any planning or thinking. It simply has a lot of boxes that it ticks, espcially in relation to other options and I do not think it is one that can be summarily dismissed out of hand. When you dig a little deeper, the pros for a site at Somersby do stack up for mine. Its all pie in the sky stuff of course, and I think its a long way off before another theme park is even considered for Sydney and NSW. Sad as that is.

It's cute you think your opinion counts. 🤣

Poor baby