Dreamworld's new IP applications 2022

[joz]

I disagree that the accident isn't a factor. Clearly it still is. I think ST would have seen a huge spike in attendance if it wasn't. I also think that the park being a shell of its former self doesn't help things.

 

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but all the parks have been crazy busy this year. I very strongly suspect MW's attendance this year has increased by more than DW's, despite the higher starting point and having done more or less nothing this year.

 

To me the more interesting comparision is SW. They've in a fairly similar situation to DW as far as the park goes; their offering is down on what it used to be and they're a long way off their best. DW made a big thing about how much attendance has grown because of ST. Here's the thing, in that same period, SW's attendance grew by (more or less) the same amount at a time when they added nothing. This year has been huge for the Gold Coast, and DW/WWW/Skypoint's combined attendance growth was barely above SW which I see as a pretty good 'control' group. There has to be another factor beyond a park which has declined, and the accident is the obvious candidate, if there wasn't, DW would have blown SW out of the water.

 

Having said that, I don't think you can blame everything on the accident, and perhaps timing it so your park has visibly declined when you're trying to relaunch yourself wasn't a great move; surely they could have got another year or two out of Buzzsaw for example. But saying the accident doesn't still loom large I think would be incorrect. I think the fact the park has visibly declined consistently in all years since 2017 is relevant.

[Cactus_Matt]

I think Dreamworld overestimated how much of an impact Steel Taipan would have on their attendance. Putting aside the effect of the incident (which is still a factor but not relevant to the point I'm making) just adding one new roller coaster that to the eyes of the general public isn't visually or 'record-breakingly' impressive was never going to cut it. Steel Taipan is the kind of ride you add when your park is already in good stead and just needs something different to an already existing line-up of crowd pleasers and record breakers. If the park still had any water ride and ToT2 in their line-up then Steel Taipan would have been a fine addition. But now the park needs to wow the general public to get attendance numbers up. Obviously this isn't going to happen and instead they're going to focus on refreshing their kids areas which, again, isn't going to drive gate. It's not that the kids areas aren't important - of course they are - but if that's all they're going to be doing for the next year or two then we can expect Dreamworld to be lagging behind in ticket sales until they start making the park a 'must visit' location.

[New display name]

24 minutes ago, joz said:

I disagree that the accident isn't a factor. Clearly it still is. I think ST would have seen a huge spike in attendance if it wasn't.

I had a thought that the idea of the Moonlight Markets was to get people comfortable to enter DW again.

[joz]

I think that's quite plausible, and I've had that same thought that they need to get people used to the idea of going there before any sort of growth can happen. It would have been interesting if that had been mentioned as the idea before the markets started. I think if that was a goal it'd be worth opening Claw, either for free or for a small fee like $5 for a couple of hours to get people to go on rides there too. It's already checked and turned on from the day, there's still staff around, feel like it would be easy. That and the playground in Dreamworks given the only playground currently is apparently Lil puff.

Edited October 26, 2022 by joz

[joz]

1 hour ago, Cactus_Matt said:

I think Dreamworld overestimated how much of an impact Steel Taipan would have on their attendance.

I must admit I'm pretty shocked at the extent to which it hasn't moved the needle yet. I really thought you'd see a very noticeable uptick in attendance but so far that hasn't really happened. Privately I've been saying that I think ST might be enough to really turn the corner. I appear to be wrong. Optimistically, maybe it'll be a bit of a slow burner. Maybe those few extra people they did get will start telling their friends and it'll build momentum but it's hard to see. If Dreamworks is on it's way out it's even worse because they'll be spending loads of money on what the public  will see as a downgrade.

 

All this kind of brings me onto the actual topic; Kenny and Belinda's Dreamland works if it's a replacement for ABC kids, and you go back to making the area look more rustic. Koalas live in the bush, and that's a bushland heavy area with a billabong. K&B aren't a strong IP that resonate but it doesn't matter, it fits in the area, and it works. It doesn't work as a Dreamworks replacement as that area either needs a reallt strong IP, or no IP but be a good area. Dreamland is much stronger than K&B's Dreamland. I think if you want to trade on the past, you'd get more traction by putting in some awesome gardens, make it generic and call it 'Country Fair'. That stops it from skewing young; it doesn't need to skew young. It's a theme park it already skews young. Make it accessible, K&B makes it a kiddie for no real benefit.

[New display name]

12 minutes ago, joz said:

That stops it from skewing young; it doesn't need to skew young. It's a theme park it already skews young. Make it accessible, K&B makes it a kiddie for no real benefit.

The problem with targeting kids is kids have no money.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1 hour ago, joz said:

I think if that was a goal it'd be worth opening Claw, either for free or for a small fee like $5 for a couple of hours to get people to go on rides there too.

A little birdie explained this to me a while back, the source is very reliable, and it makes a lot of sense. 

When Moonlight first surfaced, lots of folk asked "why aren't you opening the rides, riding ST would be awesome" - and the logic from Dreamworld was "Who is going to visit the park for $xx day ticket \ annual pass, if you can come to a night market and ride a $30Million attraction for $2.

Ok, sure you suggested an upcharge alternative, but even with the upcharge, you're still cheapening the attractions by doing so. Why visit Dreamworld when it's packed during the day if you can come after hours and get dinner too?

Dreamworld has been very particular about moonlight having its own brand - staff don't wear their uniforms (or they have a moonlight themed shirt) and the only thing that identifies them is their DW staff card. This also allows them to separate the markets brand down the track and relocating it without necessarily losing something unique to the park in the process.

17 minutes ago, joz said:

If Dreamworks is on it's way out it's even worse because they'll be spending loads of money on what the public  will see as a downgrade.

I fear that it may be the end of Dreamworks, and a generic theme is a negative for sure (Little Wonders Land anyone?) but they did this once before when they released the Nickelodeon brand before Dreamworks was signed on. The rebranding expense should stay minimal (removing any IP related icons, while using existing themed elements to guide the new theme - aka Jungle Rush for example) and the actual IP is of minimal interest to the target demographic. 

Not to mention the cost of the rebrand is probably cheaper than the licence renewal. so saved them some money most likely.

[Dean Barnett]

Do you guys think the problem with ST is the public see it as too similar or inferior to rivals?

The only thing Movie World doesn’t offer in comparison (now) is inversions. The launch gets covered by Superman. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[Cactus_Matt]

1 hour ago, joz said:

I must admit I'm pretty shocked at the extent to which it hasn't moved the needle yet. I really thought you'd see a very noticeable uptick in attendance but so far that hasn't really happened. Privately I've been saying that I think ST might be enough to really turn the corner. I appear to be wrong. Optimistically, maybe it'll be a bit of a slow burner. Maybe those few extra people they did get will start telling their friends and it'll build momentum but it's hard to see. If Dreamworks is on it's way out it's even worse because they'll be spending loads of money on what the public  will see as a downgrade.

I'm not really surprised at all, for me as an only partial roller coaster fan when I heard about the Steel Taipan announcement I was like, "huh, okay, I'm sure it'll be fun but whatever it's not enough to make me make a trip" compared to when Rivals was announced and I was like "now that's pretty cool, I have to ride that!" I imagine the general public would have reacted similar if not worse. With how clickbait-y and tik tok attention-y so many people are unless you can put "fastest" or "tallest" or "stand-up" or "flying" or "most inversions" or something like that in your description and instead just having a "really solid multi-launch, with backwards launch, with spinning back seat full circuit coaster" ain't going to cut it.

[New display name]

2 minutes ago, Cactus_Matt said:

 compared to when Rivals was announced and I was like "now that's pretty cool, I have to ride that!"

Rivals is a high standard to set for, if you get out of bed as there has only ever been one Rivals in Australia.

[Dean Barnett]

Thoosies will fly to Australia just to go on rivals - and maybe back in the day europeans/asians would for ToT.
 

 This can’t be said for ST.

[joz]

25 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

if you can come to a night market and ride a $30Million attraction for $2.

You'll notice I said Claw, not ST. That wasn't a mistake.

 

12 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

Do you guys think the problem with ST is the public see it as too similar or inferior to rivals?

I think some might see it as a poor man's rivals, but honestly I don't think the public even see it as anything. You need to get quite close to it and ride it to see that it's the same train style. I don't think the problem that ST has is MW related. 

 

50 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

The rebranding expense should stay minimal (removing any IP related icons, while using existing themed elements to guide the new theme

While I do kind of agree that you don't want to be spending mega $$, I don't think having it be the same as it was when it was branded is a good idea. I understand that they're in the shit, but I'd be trying to create something new that doesn't live or die based on an IP that will last. You might get away with pretending that Tiger Island also includes the Asian themed Kung Fu Panda stuff, but keeping a Madagascar/Far Far away mini land makes much less sense to me. Maybe if you went all in and made it lush as hell, but if you're doing that you're not saving money by reusing Madagascar stuff.

 

5 minutes ago, Cactus_Matt said:

With how clickbait-y and tik tok attention-y so many people are unless you can put "fastest" or "tallest" or "stand-up" or "flying" or "most inversions" or something like that in your description and instead just having a "really solid multi-launch, with backwards launch, with spinning back seat full circuit coaster" ain't going to cut it.

You know what they could have called it, the Gold Coast's BEST coaster. It's purely subjective, and I wouldn't agree it's best, but if someone told me their favourite coaster was ST, I can't argue against that and say they're wrong. It's not indefensible to make that claim. It also has the most inversions of any coaster on the Coast (not a high bar, but still). It's the only ride that launches you backwards. There are so many marketing angles that would work.

 

I think what they currently have up is 'DW's newest coaster'. Bleh, no wonder you don't care.

Just now, Dean Barnett said:

Thoosies will fly to Australia just to go on rivals - and maybe back in the day europeans/asians would for ToT.
 

 This can’t be said for ST.

Thoosies don't pay the bills, they never have and never will. The people who benefit from internationally renowned rides are Australian enthusiasts who get to be complimented on overseas based forums about how good a ride looks. 

[New display name]

5 minutes ago, joz said:

I think what they currently have up is 'DW's newest coaster'. Bleh, no wonder you don't care.

DW's marketing has gone down the dunny.   It wouldn't surprise me if, somebody told me, DW have made major budget cuts to marketing.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1 hour ago, joz said:

You'll notice I said Claw, not ST. That wasn't a mistake.

I know you did, i wasn't trying to ignore that - i was paraphrasing an actual quote I had heard, but the same logic applies - if you can pay-to-ride a dreamworld ride at night, why bother going during the day for much more money?

...

I'd love for the rides to be open at night but the logic as explained to me I completely understand.

1 hour ago, joz said:

While I do kind of agree that you don't want to be spending mega $$, I don't think having it be the same as it was when it was branded is a good idea. I understand that they're in the shit, but I'd be trying to create something new that doesn't live or die based on an IP that will last.

I mean, I think thats possibly why they seem to be going with a "K&B Dreamland". If I take a step back here, we're doing that enthusiast thing where we're judging the finished product before we've even seen the artist's impression. We don't know what they plan to do, and everything is based on assumptions. 

If they can recycle theming elements while applying a non-ip-based theme to the rides and lands with minimal, mainly cosmetic alterations, i'm all for it. Little Wonders Land sucked because there was no 'face' of the kids rides. They were all "SmartBuy" or "No Frills" versions of the original, with little effort to tie in. Kenny and Belinda have always been the face of Dreamworld, and the brand push for the park has been using K&B with increasing regularity in the last couple of years. Tying this into the dreamworks area, and perhaps linking KFP-land's asian theme to tiger island as you suggest is also a really good idea to reuse, connect, and keep themes cohesive without sucking the soul out of the area like Wonderland did.

[Natti_amusements]

Considering these IP applications are for a re-theme of either ABC kids or Dreamworks, and let’s be real they almost certainly are, I wonder if it would just be a complete re- skin of area/s or if any new rides would open? I feel like the GP would see it as a downgrade if they said, “we’re taking out our IP based land in favour of something generic” but if they announced the re-theme with a significant attraction/s maybe it would feel like a more complete addition.

[joz]

32 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

I know you did, i wasn't trying to ignore that - i was paraphrasing an actual quote I had heard, but the same logic applies - if you can pay-to-ride a dreamworld ride at night, why bother going during the day for much more money?

...

I'd love for the rides to be open at night but the logic as explained to me I completely understand.

See that was pretty understandable logic from the outset. Like it's so basic that we all kind of had that as a launch off point. The discussion was 'If the point of the markets is to get used to being in DW again, (and even if it's not), might it be worth opening a ride at night to get people used to going on rides at DW again?' In the case of Claw it's an old ride that most people have been on that's a bit of a crowd favourite. If you charge for it it's an extra revenue stream, if you don't it brings more people to your market to go on a ride at DW and remove some stigma, so there is a case to be made for why it might be a thing. I'm not saying what they're doing is right or wrong, just making that point that there is a case to be made.

 

39 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

I mean, I think thats possibly why they seem to be going with a "K&B Dreamland". If I take a step back here, we're doing that enthusiast thing where we're judging the finished product before we've even seen the artist's impression

You've been around, you kinda know if an idea is good or bad fairly quickly. K&B Dreamland would be shithouse as a retheme of Dreamworks. Just the target market for the rides stuff it up, Dreamworks land skews older than kids who think costume characters are a thing. Also I think you can do kid's lands without being patronising in that way. The Kiddie land in that area when I was a kid was Village Green. It had European architecture gorgeous gardens and a healthy smattering of kids rides. Genuine effort went into it. It was pleasant and kids worked out on their own that it was good. You didn't need to call it 'Kenny and Belinda's European Holiday' or some crap. I think by doing that you make it skew young, and Dreamworks line up doesn't match.

 

Again, for ABC Kids world, no problem. The rides in the area skew young and the landscape fits the characters, the landscape doesn't fit ABC Kids at all so wouldn't be against it at all. If you go back to it being an Australiana land then it would be a really cheap and easy fit.

 

DreamWorks you really could do 'Country Fair' (Or even World's Fair if you're keeping Asian stuff) as a fairly generic theme, you just have to put some real, genuine effort into landscaping and reskinning the rides and making it look good. If you did that you wouldn't walk around going 'Didn't this used to be something else?'. I'm not saying CF/WF is what what they SHOULD do, I'm simply saying reusing old themeing just reminds you of the superior thing that used to be there. 

 

Also Little Wonder's land was awful because they didn't even try and make it good. I don't think it would be miraculously better if Fred Flintstone's Splashdown was renamed 'Cave Man Splashdown' because you can reuse a little bit of the themeing (Also to be clear, I don't know or care if that ride made it into LWL, it's just an example.)

[Ashley Jeffery]

Didn't they just sign a new deal with the wiggles? Would that take ABC out of the question?

 

Be nice if jungle rush was something similar to jungle cruise they the got river for it.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Ashley Jeffery

[Brad2912]

1 hour ago, Ashley Jeffery said:

Didn't they just sign a new deal with the wiggles?

Not aware of that occurring. 
 

[Ogre]

11 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

Not aware of that occurring. 
 

“We’ll have some news on that soon,” says Yong. “We just signed a new deal with The Wiggles and you can imagine we’re going to do a lot with that.”

Quote from the daily telegraph article

[joz]

1 hour ago, Ashley Jeffery said:

Be nice if jungle rush was something similar to jungle cruise they the got river for it.

A cruise through the bush called Jungle Run would honestly be the about the most irritating thing they could do.

[Cactus_Matt]

Honestly I'd love if the upcoming Jungle Rush attraction was some kind of long water ride utilising the lake/river/water donut, but the fact that it's called 'Jungle Rush' and not 'Jungle Splash' means its going to be something decidedly not wet. Shame that.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Cactus_Matt

[Baconjack]

On 26/10/2022 at 3:41 PM, Dean Barnett said:

Do you guys think the problem with ST is the public see it as too similar or inferior to rivals?

The only thing Movie World doesn’t offer in comparison (now) is inversions. The launch gets covered by Superman. 

I do agree but for different reasons.

First the ride's presentation is very underwhelming. It is presented like a zoo exhibit - not a theme park attraction. Wipeout and Taipan have both served as 'great white hope' investments, but Wipeout looks far cooler on a TVC or on social media than Taipan is (given the level of detail between these two rides are night and day). The ride itself isn't exactly that special either, because to an average guest it looks similar to rivals - both cosmetically and in terms of ride layout - an inverted coaster would have given them something unique rather than dropping a cool $30 million on a clone. A well-done flume could even have been an even better use for that money at the time to bring back families.

The Kenny & Belinda theme is going to probably take over Dreamworks. The license is probably up for renewal soon and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Comcast isn't keen on renewing one of their IP's to a competitor, or is charging a hefty amount for the privilege. IMO it's a shit retheme - because there's attractions like Pandamonium that you need to fit into that area which skew well above what the theme would suggest. A simple generic theme would do nicely without use of characters.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Baconjack

[Ogre]

Probably unrelated but noticed some Dreamworld higher ups walking near Madagascar with a couple of people from Mack Rides this morning (or at least wearing Mack branded shirts haha)

[franky]

Just now, Ogre said:

Probably unrelated but noticed some Dreamworld higher ups walking near Madagascar with a couple of people from Mack Rides this morning (or at least wearing Mack branded shirts haha)

Mack Giga confirmed

[New display name]

Mack shooing monkeys out of trees dark ride confirmed.  //s