Sea World updates 2016

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

That is a very different proposal to what was published earlier  - it won't fix much, but bypassing the bridge - which is the narrowest section of the run to the M1 should help a little - and may even reduce 'non-spit' traffic on the GC hwy as it would link onto main beach parade giving another way to get to cavill and the main CBD.

[themagician]

New shading is finished in Shark Bay 

And don't know if these are new or have never noticed them, but shade sails have been installed over the outside queue area for Strom

 

[Brad2912]

Good idea re: shade sails over the Storm queue 

with less rides there will be longer lines on Storm which means more people outside queuing

[Richard]

Well at least they're consistent. They removed most of the bar/service area at Dockside Tavern and replaced it with an area to queue to make up for the slower service. Removing most of the rides and making the few remaining queues slightly more comfortable is a brilliant long-term strategy.

[Park Addict 93]

Worth noting Storm also now has single rider "Availabe"

[Santa07]

Soundsgood

Why do you have to "inquire within" though? So it's not a separate queue?

[MickeyD]

I would like to see the exit walkway opened up to the general public, allowing people to go inside and stand by the splash down for a bit of fun. It's a wasted opportunity as it is

[Bush Beast Forever]

On 20/12/2016 at 11:23 AM, MaxxTheMonster said:

Yeah that wont fix anything...  Well not for leaving that area...  Heading there would be much better...  You skip one full intersection of lights and a pedestrian crossing...

Problem then is you would then end up with worse traffic at the intersection of Queen St as it will be a 4 way not T intersection...

Why is it that nobody within ASF, VRTP, Gold Coast Council or the Qld Govt have seen fit to suggest the fairly obvious solution of a modern cable car / gondola system from the Broadwater Parkland Light Rail Station to the southwesternmost corner of the Seaworld parking lot?

This solution is:

- cheap for a public transport solution;

- good for the environment being driven by electricity;

- a tourist attraction in and of itself;

- has potential to be extended to service the mooted cruise terminal if that goes ahead; and

- is actually fairly high capacity.

An MDG system (Mono Detachable Grip) for instance can transport up to 3000pphpd:

http://gondolaproject.com/mdg/

A funitel up to 4000 (and also boasts better wind resistance):

http://gondolaproject.com/funitel/

Or a top of the line 3S system up to 6000 (along with terrific wind resistance):

http://gondolaproject.com/3s/

To put that in perspective the G-Link Tram has a minimum headway of 7.5mins and carries a maximum of 309 passengers currently (i.e. less than 2500pphpd capacity).

Edited December 22, 2016 by Bush Beast Forever
Addition of information.

[MaxxTheMonster]

1 hour ago, MickeyD said:

I would like to see the exit walkway opened up to the general public, allowing people to go inside and stand by the splash down for a bit of fun. It's a wasted opportunity as it is

I have taken my son who is tall enough to ride but a little scared to still in through there multiple times...  You just have to ask the attendant

[Intimidator305.]

42 minutes ago, Bush Beast Forever said:

Why is it that nobody within ASF, VRTP, Gold Coast Council or the Qld Govt have seen fit to suggest the fairly obvious solution of a modern cable car / gondola system from the Broadwater Parkland Light Rail Station to the southwesternmost corner of the Seaworld parking lot?

 

Maybe because it wasn't super obvious? I get what your saying, but a cable car wasn't the first thing to come to mind when I tried to solve the problem.

[Bush Beast Forever]

9 minutes ago, Intimidator305. said:

Maybe because it wasn't super obvious? I get what your saying, but a cable car wasn't the first thing to come to mind when I tried to solve the problem.

What other solution is as cost effective, environmentally sustainable and will increase utilisation of infrastructure that retains capacity for significant growth (light rail should be able to see headway reduced to as little as 3-4 minutes if this ever became an issue)?

Once the northern light rail extension is completed a public transit solution that links the transit constrained GC Spit to the light rail seems like a no-brainer to me (effectively links the spit to the entire SE Qld rail network).

It isnt as if these solutions arent being built elsewhere. Literally dozens have been built or proposed worldwide since the first urban system was built in Medillin, Columbia in 2004. For the State or Local Govt to not be aware of cable transit as a solution requires some willful ignorance on their part. Isn't that what all those 'study tours' MPs and Councillors go on are for?

[MickeyD]

1 hour ago, MaxxTheMonster said:

I have taken my son who is tall enough to ride but a little scared to still in through there multiple times...  You just have to ask the attendant

Thanks for letting me know @MaxxTheMonster - when you see so many people standing around the entrance I am sure the Lamen would not even know to ask. If the exit wasn't guarded the way it is and a simple sign pointing toward 'Observation deck, Caution you may get wet!' I am sure a lot of people would rush to get out of the Sun and take a closer look. The pathways are perfectly safe I am honestly unsure what the big deal is?

[Intimidator305.]

1 hour ago, Bush Beast Forever said:

What other solution is as cost effective, environmentally sustainable and will increase utilisation of infrastructure that retains capacity for significant growth (light rail should be able to see headway reduced to as little as 3-4 minutes if this ever became an issue)?

 

I actually think it's a brilliant idea, I just hadn't thought of it. Sorry (I know the phrasing came out completely different to what I meant).

[Bush Beast Forever]

49 minutes ago, Intimidator305. said:

I actually think it's a brilliant idea, I just hadn't thought of it. Sorry (I know the phrasing came out completely different to what I meant).

No worries yeah understand how can be difficult to get tone across in the written word.

Am not holding out much hope they end up going with something like what I've suggested though. Aussie planners not the kind to look outside the box.

Much more likely that they'll spend 3-4x as much as a gondola system would cost to build another vehicle bridge that does nothing to resolve the congestion on the GC Highway.

Would be cool if they did though. Kids would love going on it (e.g. how many kids have ever asked to go by car to Taronga Zoo in Sydney vs taking the Ferry?).

A public transport solution would also mean you wouldnt need a designated driver if going to the casino and enjoying some beverages or if Seaworld were to develop some nightime events (e.g. how about an Oktoberfest event?).

[Jamberoo Fan]

4 hours ago, Bush Beast Forever said:

Why is it that nobody within ASF, VRTP, Gold Coast Council or the Qld Govt have seen fit to suggest the fairly obvious solution of a modern cable car / gondola system from the Broadwater Parkland Light Rail Station to the southwesternmost corner of the Seaworld parking lot?

The main problem I've seen with cable cars/gondolas is capacity. Yes, they got high capacity which in most cases is good but in this case, it's too much capacity. Assuming SW has the same average attendance as DW, that is 6000 people per day on average. SW's former Sky High Skyway could handle about 4000 people maximum in 1 whole day. These gondolas/cable cars can handle double that in 1 hour. Most cable cars/gondolas would thus be very underutilised and be labelled a 'white elephant'. Even with the casino's visitation added, it'd probably be only a slight improvement. If it was to help local commuters, well how many people commute to The Spit? Probably not many extra. Tourists would only use it and there is still too few tourists to justify building it. It may also be too high to meet height restrictions (unless they relax the restrictions) and may be deemed an eyesore by local residents. 

If anything, I'd extend the light rail to terminate at SW from the Main Beach stop in it's own branch line.

By the way, the cruise ship terminal is not part of those plans.

1 hour ago, Bush Beast Forever said:

how about an Oktoberfest event?

That would probably work if you can encourage visitors to not drink too much alcohol.

[Gazza]

But cableways can have capacity adjusted for demand, just run more or fewer cars in line with forecast capacity needs on that day.

[pin142]

I would be likely to use it if they had a major park and ride at Helensvale. Offer secure parking and a return trip on the cable car to Sea World as part of the parking at Helensvale and I would leave my car there and take the light rail/cable car combo. I wouldn't have an issue with paying something like $20 for the parking and cable car combo, obviously light rail would be a separate ticket.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

15 hours ago, MickeyD said:

I would like to see the exit walkway opened up to the general public, allowing people to go inside and stand by the splash down for a bit of fun. It's a wasted opportunity as it is

As mentioned, you can - you just let the attendant know you aren't riding.

14 hours ago, Bush Beast Forever said:

What other solution is as cost effective, environmentally sustainable and will increase utilisation of infrastructure that retains capacity for significant growth (light rail should be able to see headway reduced to as little as 3-4 minutes if this ever became an issue)?

Despite the lacklustre usage within the park, a modern high capacity monorail (see Sentosa island in Singapore) would be my preferred method, rather than a cable car. I know many people who don't want to go on a cable car because of a fear of heights or a fear that 'just one cable' is between them and death. A monorail 'feels' safer - as there is solid ground under the train, and therefore isn't likely to 'fall'. This fear issue is probably another good reason why it hasn't been 'thought of' by these 'unimaginative aussie engineers'

12 hours ago, MickeyD said:

Thanks for letting me know @MaxxTheMonster - when you see so many people standing around the entrance I am sure the Lamen would not even know to ask. If the exit wasn't guarded the way it is and a simple sign pointing toward 'Observation deck, Caution you may get wet!' I am sure a lot of people would rush to get out of the Sun and take a closer look. The pathways are perfectly safe I am honestly unsure what the big deal is?

The paths are fine. The reason for the attendant is the loose items policy - since the lockers are not at the entrance. People won't read signs - so they need someone directing them where to go, and preventing loose items from entering the queue.

9 hours ago, Jamberoo Fan said:

The main problem I've seen with cable cars/gondolas is capacity. Yes, they got high capacity which in most cases is good but in this case, it's too much capacity. Assuming SW has the same average attendance as DW, that is 6000 people per day on average. SW's former Sky High Skyway could handle about 4000 people maximum in 1 whole day. These gondolas/cable cars can handle double that in 1 hour. Most cable cars/gondolas would thus be very underutilised and be labelled a 'white elephant'. Even with the casino's visitation added, it'd probably be only a slight improvement. If it was to help local commuters, well how many people commute to The Spit? Probably not many extra. Tourists would only use it and there is still too few tourists to justify building it. It may also be too high to meet height restrictions (unless they relax the restrictions) and may be deemed an eyesore by local residents. 

If anything, I'd extend the light rail to terminate at SW from the Main Beach stop in it's own branch line.

By the way, the cruise ship terminal is not part of those plans.

That would probably work if you can encourage visitors to not drink too much alcohol.

You're ignoring the bigger picture - Sea World's current daily average isn't what you want to design a transport system around. You want to have a system that is capable of carrying your biggest day within the space of an hour or so - if everyone is encouraged to travel by public transport then decides to leave spot on 5pm, you're going to have a mutiny if you can't move them quickly enough. There is rarely a case where you can say 'we have too much capacity' - rather, what you should be saying is 'how do we get more people to fill this capacity' on days like that.

And as for the bigger picture? All things going to plan, a casino with several hotels and a massive entertainment precinct is going to add way more than 6000 people a day. You need to factor this one into your plans too.

[Jamberoo Fan]

18 hours ago, Gazza said:

But cableways can have capacity adjusted for demand, just run more or fewer cars in line with forecast capacity needs on that day.

I never knew this but that does help. I still think though even if fewer cars were run, the cableway won't operate most of the day & thus still be considered underutilised. @AlexB's monorail suggestion, to me, is more likely. Imagine if they connected Jupiters Casino's monorail to SW's monorail?  But then people probably would wonder why they built the light rail then.

9 hours ago, AlexB said:

You're ignoring the bigger picture - Sea World's current daily average isn't what you want to design a transport system around. You want to have a system that is capable of carrying your biggest day within the space of an hour or so - if everyone is encouraged to travel by public transport then decides to leave spot on 5pm, you're going to have a mutiny if you can't move them quickly enough. There is rarely a case where you can say 'we have too much capacity' - rather, what you should be saying is 'how do we get more people to fill this capacity' on days like that.

And as for the bigger picture? All things going to plan, a casino with several hotels and a massive entertainment precinct is going to add way more than 6000 people a day. You need to factor this one into your plans too.

I agree with that but I wasn't ignoring it. The cablecar/gondola would be very useful around 9-11am & 4-6pm but might be rarely used between 11am & 4pm. The same would apply for the hotels. The casino/entertainment precinct I can see getting increased visitation after sunset depending on the entertainment on offer. I still think a cable car/gondola would be underutilised & being labelled a 'white elephant' unless there is something on The Spit that will have the need for people to travel to & from between 11am & 4pm.

[Gazza]

Why wouldn't it operate most of the day? 

Do other Australian tourist cableways shut randomly in the daytime?

The white elephant argument is silly. If it's paying its bills then the  operator wont give two shits what and old fart writing letters to the paper thinks.

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Gazza

[Jamberoo Fan]

Because demand for transportation to The Spit would be less during the main portion of the day (11am to 4pm) maybe to the point it is not worthy to operate it then.

Other Australian tourist cableways operate during the day because there is constant demand in the day for it's usage such as Cairns' Skyrail, which operates to about a 60% or more capacity.

But yeah, I agree operators won't care about the general public's opinion if the cableway is still financially feasible.

[Gazza]

But the point is, any tourist attraction has lower patronage on a weekday, that's part and the parcel of the industry. Be it the Southbank Ferris Wheel, or Ripleys or whatever.

Often they combat this with special prices on tickets in certain hours.

I dunno why you're singling this one out, lol maybe some one way ferries would be viable 

Also, if I were doing it, I might look at running from a station built into Australia Fair (which would be upgraded by then hopefully)...Basically, hop off a tram, walk through an A/Ced mall, jump on the skyway, and end up on the other side.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Gazza

[rappa]

I think most are forgetting the spit is not Sea World. It's just one thing on there. During the summer people are two and fro all day to the beach, etc. 

Your 11-4 time slot will be well patronized. 

 

But all these ideas seem crazy. We have the light rail. A deducted spur line is the way to go. 

You can move hundreds of people a minute, not dozens. 

[Jamberoo Fan]

2 hours ago, Gazza said:

But the point is, any tourist attraction has lower patronage on a weekday, that's part and the parcel of the industry. Be it the Southbank Ferris Wheel, or Ripleys or whatever.

True but those are in or very near the CBD of a city where people are going to/from all day. The only thing most tourists would go to The Spit for is SW only and that's only around 10am & around 5pm.

2 hours ago, Gazza said:

I dunno why you're singling this one out, lol maybe some one way ferries would be viable

I only brought it up as despite how wonderful the idea is, the capacity of these gondolas/cable cars have to be considered & I believe the capacity is too high in this situation. And no, I don't think one way ferries in this case are viable.

1 hour ago, djrappa said:

I think most are forgetting the spit is not Sea World. It's just one thing on there. During the summer people are two and fro all day to the beach, etc. 

Your 11-4 time slot will be well patronized.

Didn't forget but as a non-local, I don't know how often locals travel to The Spit for non-SW reasons. I took an assumption that locals rarely do but until you posted, no one argued locals use The Spit regularly for things other than SW but still in your argument, it's only in the summer - only making it a seasonal attraction so far.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan

[rappa]

So basically you're saying that you know nothing about the usage of the spit and then arguing that I'm wrong with my info on the usage of the spit?

No one is arguing about other uses for the spit because this is a theme park site full of people who mostly care about theme parks. Doesn't take rocket surgery to work that out. 

 

Gold Coast basically has summer for around 10.5 months of the year so...