DC Rivals HyperCoaster construction discussion

[Santa07]

Honestly I see no problem with or without VR. If it's got VR and you don't want VR, I don't see what's so hard about not riding with VR...??? I don't understand why you guys are reacting so much to the possibility of it. Is it unnecessary? Yes, two VR rides in a park is probably overkill, but does it have an adverse effect on anything (other than efficiency)? No.

[Richard]

Efficiency is a pretty important one though... optimistically if it adds just 60 seconds to a dispatch time of two minutes then capacity is down by a third. An hour queue in a peak period becomes an hour and a half.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

This brand new ride is going to have the longest lines in the park for sometime.

 

Launching with a VR option that negatively impacts efficiency is not on.

[rappa]

Yeah all of you saying "just don't use it" really have obviously not seen it in action. 

 

For or example if I wanted to ride New Revolution without VR I would have had to wait 2.5HOURS! If I didn't have a platinum flash pass. Because I did it was revealed the wait for non VR was actually mins but all those people had to wait in the age with VR guests. 

 

Even at its most efficient it CRIPPLES capacity. Also there is zero point building a hyper coaster if you are going to VR because the body really doesn't notice the difference in sensations to a much smaller and cheaper coaster. 

[mickayel]

Let's say VR is happening, do you think efficiency could be managed with 3 separate lines - fast track / general / VR. Has a similar queue system been implemented in other parks to anyone's knowledge? 

[Wil_i_am_not]

I could possibly see VR coming to the coaster once all the hype has died down (e.g. they've built a new ride), but I think this coaster, if it's 'worlds best', then we won't see the hype dying down for some time as AlexB has mentioned. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

22 minutes ago, mickayel said:

Let's say VR is happening

[rappa]

You can have separate ques but you still have to put those people on the train. 

So thas where your capacity dies in the ass. 

You look at most implementations of VR and they've all been to breathe new life into older rides and create a marketing opportunity. 

A world best coaster will have this pull all on its own. Much smarter to wait and use it as a new market driver several years down the line. 

You also don't want to devalue the offering on Arkham. Why would you pay for VR on Arkham when you can use your money for the latest and greatest coaster. 

It's just simple business. 

[Gazza]

1 hour ago, djrappa said:

For or example if I wanted to ride New Revolution without VR I would have had to wait 2.5HOURS! If I didn't have a platinum flash pass. Because I did it was revealed the wait for non VR was actually mins but all those people had to wait in the age with VR guests. 

Did they have the Singles line when you were there?

Basically you could get on straight away, but you weren't allowed to use VR.

[jake_hunt]

I can actually see VR happening here. They said it's a world's best, and there's been comments in the past that it could just be a "world's best <insert coaster type here>".

With VR being relatively new on the scene, maybe WBMW is jumping in for world's best virtual reality coaster.

Honestly, I hope not. Having seen what VR does to the capacity of rides around the world, I can't imagine how much worse it would be if the coaster were actually DESIGNED to use the headsets...

And as people have said, I think VR works better to breathe new life into tired attractions, so I can't imagine anyone other than a big park in the US trying to push the trend in a different direction. Here's hoping they stay away from VR on this one, at least until it's a little aged and needs some new life.

[rappa]

22 minutes ago, Gazza said:

Did they have the Singles line when you were there?

Basically you could get on straight away, but you weren't allowed to use VR.

I don't think so. But it's hardly relevant to making the point though. 

I'll correct myself:

IF the park has a singles line 

and

IF you have no friends and want to ride alone

then

Youll only have to wait too long instead of way way way too long. 

[Tim Dasco]

If the ride was designed for VR then maybe they designed a dual station. So that they can load trains with VR in one station and use the other station for normal rides. So this way they can load one of the trains with VR and lets say another 2 trains for normal operations. Assuming this is a big hyper coaster they are going to need more than 1 train. So this way non VR people don't have to wait for VR people to load and get the VR headsets set up.

[Santa07]

58 minutes ago, djrappa said:

Youll only have to wait too long instead of way way way too long. 

I've never heard that before, what I've heard is that the non-VR single rider lines are just as short on VR coasters than it would be otherwise.

[Gazza]

I think what DjRappa was saying is that SRQ is a solution to the wait time for some guests, but not everyone.

[Richard]

Quote

In the coming months, we will be announcing an exciting new attraction for the Gold Coast which we expect will be one of the world’s best theme park drawcards.

This quote has become so butchered and misappropriated in the year or so since it was said by Village Roadshow's Robert Kirby.

"One of the world's best theme park drawcards" to me points to the installation of a world-class attraction that is reliably going to attract crowds. It's not a statement that says "we're going to build the world's best attraction" or "we're going to build the world's best [insert ride type]". The last thing this statement says to me is that they're going to gamble with something untested such as VR as the drawcard. 

If the budget for this ride is anything like what I'm hearing, then logic dictates they really can't afford to do anything but play it really safe by looking at what works historically.

[rac2703]

From the ACCC:

Wildly exaggerated claims (puffery)

‘Puffery’ is a term used to describe wildly exaggerated or vague claims about a product or service that no one could possibly treat seriously. For example, a restaurant claims they have the ‘best steaks on earth’. These types of statements are not considered misleading.

[rappa]

Except no one knows this is being exaggerated until whatever it is has been announced. 

 

And what I was saying earlier is that even if the que is short, dispatch times are still long with VR on the train. 

But it seems the VR brigade will not be silenced so we'll just wait and see hey. 

[Santa07]

Exaggeration is a personal thing - one person might think it deserves all the hype, while the fellow next door might not enjoy it as much and think of it as overhyped.

Whether it's being exaggerated or not, I'm sure it's going to be one of, if not the best addition to MW we've seen. That's something that the exaggeration of an announcement won't affect.

[nitromefans]

On 11/20/2015 at 1:46 AM, djrappa said:

I know and wish I could say but this one is a very tight lipped secret and my source is very official but has to be protected. 

I was shocked and blown away myself and I know you all will be too. Exciting times. 

Just a reminder to the doubters that there may be some merits in what djrappa is saying.

Edited October 14, 2016 by nitromefans

[mba2012]

Got a quick look driving past this afternoon on the M1. More fittings are appearing towards the south towards WNW. Still plenty of footings to go in by the looks of the stuff laying around. 

[Jamberoo Fan]

I'll repeat this - In case anyone is thinking it, I'm not saying or endorsing this rollercoaster should have VR. After all, I have never experienced it myself so I have no place to judge it (though I've seen videos that demonstrate the efficiency problem). I didn't expect such intense discussion when I brought the VR possibility up again. Since we were discussing immersive theming in regards to this new rollercoaster, I was just pointing out how VR could make the rollercoaster's theming 'immersive' particularly since I still haven't found out anything to rule out a 'pure VR' rollercoaster. It was just speculation - nothing more. If a different manufacturer was confirmed or the rollercoaster was opening prior to the end of 2016, I would have ruled it out straight away.

Regarding, efficiency - yes, it is a very likely problem but remember:

1. AA is already using VR - MW might be able to find solutions to efficiency problems based on AA's VR operations prior to the new rollercoaster's opening date (which is probably over a year away too).
2. The quote says 'there's a lot more engineering involved' - whilst this probably refers to the track layout, it might also refer to ensuring smooth VR operations at the station.
3. So far, all rollercoasters were designed without VR in mind. When a 'pure VR' rollercoaster is being built (which we know 2 are already in production), they are clearly keeping VR in mind so efficiency problems would be the major problem to solve (otherwise Mack Rides would be selling an unsellable product with such low efficiency - they would be better just sticking with selling VR add-ons for existing rollercoasters while parks just focus on purchasing traditional rollercoasters from them (and purchasing a VR add-on from them for that purchased rollercoaster far in the future).

11 hours ago, XxMrYoshixX said:

If VR is compulsory, god help me because I have to put up with a stupid gimmick that ruins literally any roller coaster that isn't indoors.

So far, VR is optional in all rollercoasters too so chances are the same would apply to the new rollercoaster if MW does end up getting a 'pure VR' rollercoaster so don't worry (yet) about the possibility of 'compulsory VR'.

6 hours ago, Santa07 said:

 Is it unnecessary? Yes, two VR rides in a park is probably overkill

Depends on how many rides are in the park. Using rollercoasters as an example - If a park had 2 rollercoasters, then yes, no more. If a park has 19 rollercoasters, then a bit of variety in VR options won't hurt (assuming efficiency is meeting expectations).

5 hours ago, djrappa said:

Also there is zero point building a hyper coaster if you are going to VR because the body really doesn't notice the difference in sensations to a much smaller and cheaper coaster. 

I was reading about (add-on) VR rollercoasters yesterday - apparently, they can design the software to really distort your experience so drops feel bigger than they really are, make corners sharper than they really are etc. I'm trying to think what benefits this has to a 'pure VR' rollercoaster (particularly of hypercoaster scale)?

5 hours ago, djrappa said:

You also don't want to devalue the offering on Arkham. Why would you pay for VR on Arkham when you can use your money for the latest and greatest coaster. 

Like I said earlier, some visitors might prefer being in a VR world of a different franchise. 

3 hours ago, Tim Dasco said:

If the ride was designed for VR then maybe they designed a dual station. So that they can load trains with VR in one station and use the other station for normal rides. So this way they can load one of the trains with VR and lets say another 2 trains for normal operations. Assuming this is a big hyper coaster they are going to need more than 1 train. So this way non VR people don't have to wait for VR people to load and get the VR headsets set up.

I was thinking this would be a good solution to the efficiency problem. It only depends on demand at the time when the new rollercoaster opens - would people prefer the VR option (needing both stations), either (only 1 VR station) or just traditional (no VR stations)? As if 2 VR stations can't solve the problem when the new rollercoaster opens, efficiency problems with it would spread quickly through word of mouth/social media. I'm sure it would work once demand settles down to a more reasonable level.

2 hours ago, Richard said:

"One of the world's best theme park drawcards" to me points to the installation of a world-class attraction that is reliably going to attract crowds.

Totally agree with this but essentially in the end, a massive rollercoaster will still be there to attract crowds & if the VR trend disappears, then they could just sell the VR components or move them to a different ride/park. Efficiency problems just have to be solved.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan

[Tim Dasco]

@Jamberoo Fan That is what I mean one VR station and one normal station. So people who want to experience and pay for VR have a separate queue line and a separate station. So the normal station is not effected. Then if they ever abandon the VR in the future they can use both stations as normal duel stations to make loading efficient. Like Revenge of Mummy or Jurassic flyer at USJ.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Tim Dasco

[Brad2912]

24 minutes ago, Tim Dasco said:

@Jamberoo Fan That is what I mean one VR station and one normal station. So people who want to experience and pay for VR have a separate queue line and a separate station. So the normal station is not effected. Then if they ever abandon the VR in the future they can use both stations as normal duel stations to make loading efficient. Like Revenge of Mummy or Jurassic flyer at USJ.

You really think they are going to operate 2 stations, likely requiring 2 staff per station? We can't even get 2 trains running on SE off peak and you want multiple stations? 

[Tim Dasco]

But with a coaster of this size they are going to need to run 2 minimum. Or you are looking at sending 1 car every 7 minutes. (5 minute ride time roughly and 2 minutes to load and unload) That would have insanely bad capacity. Magnum Xl-200 has 3 cars each holds 36 people.

[red dragin]

A second station would still impact operations if it was on a different regime. Perhaps in 3 train operation the impact would be manageable. 

djrappa knows what's going on, his hints have been impressively subtle enough that no one has worked it out yet.