Leviathan - Operations and Soft Opening Complaints

[New display name]

5 minutes ago, Tricoart said:

It’s a much more simpler way of saying “The management decisions made for the opening schedule of DC Rivals (among other opening schedules, like that of Steel Taipan) were more thought out, planned, better implemented, and certainly more well-recieved than the management decisions made for the opening schedule of Leviathan, Trident, and Vortex, also known as the New Atlantis precinct (though mainly Leviathan).”

SW had the extra pressure because they were so behind in getting this thing open.  Histoy tells us the 2nd of December is a strange date to open a new ride on the GC.  (my thoughts is it should have opened boxing day) I personally don't care about the issues it is having as I can drop in any day I want,  but what I did observe is security standing with with SW staff who were telling people the ride wasn't going and people fighting in the queue.

[Tricoart]

 

9 minutes ago, aussienetman said:

 

Comparing Rise of the Resistance (arguably the most advanced technical ride in the world) with a gravity woodie... train go up hill, train go down hill... is a stretch 🤣

 

To be fair, though, Levi’s technology is new to its current staff members. With that being said, that is one of the many benefits of a soft opening/passholder preview, to get staff accustomed to the ride and its technology before the grand opening, and work out any kinks the programming may have. Also, despite the difference in technological advancement, people continuously complain if RotR goes down at Disney, like they are with Levi. It’s just the reasons that each ride goes down that is drastically incomparable.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Tricoart

[Brad2912]

47 minutes ago, Rivals said:

They should’ve waited for both rides to be fully commissioned, then decided and announced an opening date

That’s not how marketing works, at all. You’re talking about a timeline of months. If you waited for commissioning to start that process you’d be opening months before you even have marketing activity in the public arena which when heading into the holiday season just isn’t possible. You name a date and do all you can to make it. 

[Tricoart]

10 minutes ago, New display name said:

SW had the extra pressure because they were so behind in getting this thing open.  Histoy tells us the 2nd of December is a strange date to open a new ride on the GC.  (my thoughts is it should have opened boxing day) I personally don't care about the issues it is having as I can drop in any day I want,  but what I did observe is security standing with with SW staff who were telling people the ride wasn't going and people fighting in the queue.

Yes, they had the extra pressure because of the previous mistakes they’d made with opening announcements, and that pressure would’ve stayed the same whether the opening date was the 2nd of December or Boxing Day. But, the later the date, the more catching up they could do on what they were clearly underprepared for. If I had to take a guess, though, they chose to set the opening for as soon as they could after the ride was scheduled to pass basic commissioning, and rushed the area to be as prepared as it could be, disregarding any issues that may occur as a result of the ride/ride crew not being properly accustomed. Which is what, assumedly, led to the issues that are occurring.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Tricoart

[Rivals]

1 minute ago, Brad2912 said:

That’s not how marketing works, at all. You’re talking about a timeline of months. If you waited for commissioning to start that process you’d be opening months before you even have marketing activity in the public arena which when heading into the holiday season just isn’t possible. You name a date and do all you can to make it. 

You don’t need to market it with an official date attatched, marketing could’ve stayed as ‘Rising Soon’ until commissioning, testing ect were all done. 

[Brad2912]

4 minutes ago, Rivals said:

You don’t need to market it with an official date attatched, marketing could’ve stayed as ‘Rising Soon’ until commissioning, testing ect were all done. 

If you’re putting campaigns onto billboards interstate, bus shelters, train stations (all of which I saw last week in Sydney) you need a date. “Rising soon” doesn’t inspire anyone to book, and replacing all that marketing later with a set date doubles your costs. So you name a date and aim for it

[Tricoart]

3 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

If you’re putting campaigns onto billboards interstate, bus shelters, train stations (all of which I saw last week in Sydney) you need a date. “Rising soon” doesn’t inspire anyone to book, and replacing all that marketing later with a set date doubles your costs. So you name a date and aim for it

I think the point they’re trying to make is that you don’t make those billboards for a set date until you are sure the ride can comfortably operate on that set date, and until then keep it as ‘Rising Soon’, delegated to mostly socials and local advertising (e.g. billboard out the front of the park). And I understand the park wanting to advertise ASAP, because the sooner the better, but with 2+ years of delay, I can’t help but think they could’ve at least added some more leniency and not had it be so rushed & unfinished. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Tricoart

[pin142]

9 hours ago, rappa said:

And finally, I know its been a while since a big major ride like this opened, but this is pretty normal anywhere in the world, new rides often have issues and as an enthusiast you should know that the price you pay for wanting to be ‘first’ is the thing might break down. 

1000% agree with this. Was at Six Flags Discovery Kingdom for opening day of Joker, ride was up and down all day with it going down in the evening and not re-opening to a queue full of people (they did re-open Superman as a goodwill gesture). What is happening with Levithan can happen with any ride anywhere in the world and does happen. Don't like the idea of it happening then maybe wait a month or so before rushing to the park.

[Rivals]

 

8 minutes ago, Tricoart said:

I think the point they’re trying to make is that you don’t make those billboards for a set date until you are sure the ride can comfortably operate on that set date, and until then keep it as ‘Rising Soon’, delegated to mostly socials and local advertising (e.g. billboard out the front of the park). And I understand the park wanting to advertise ASAP, because the sooner the better, but with 2+ years of delay, I can’t help but think they could’ve at least added some more leniency and not had it be so rushed & unfinished. 

exactly my point. 

Rivals was commissioned then had employee ride nights, previews and a couple leeway weeks of testing before opening, all while being advertised as opening soon.

Same thing with Taipan, except only around two weeks of leeway testing but accompanied by a soft opening, all being advertised as opening soon. 

if ST’s opening went how this weekend and process has gone, they would’ve been torn apart as “unprepared, unprofessional and management needs help.” which did kind of happen even in a soft opening period, so i really want to know what’s different?. The theming around the ride isn’t finished, the ride and employees don’t seem like they were as prepared as they could’ve been to take on so many guests, and they never had a leeway period to conduct extra testing or testing while also leaving room for normal issues.

no matter what anyone says, it’s clear they needed more time, some sort of technical rehearsals and a period to accompany this.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Rivals

[Tricoart]

14 minutes ago, pin142 said:

1000% agree with this. Was at Six Flags Discovery Kingdom for opening day of Joker, ride was up and down all day with it going down in the evening and not re-opening to a queue full of people (they did re-open Superman as a goodwill gesture). What is happening with Levithan can happen with any ride anywhere in the world and does happen. Don't like the idea of it happening then maybe wait a month or so before rushing to the park.

Okay, but Joker at SFDK both:

- had a soft opening (4 days before official open).

- is a regional, thrilling attraction opening at a Six Flags chain park, not subject to a country-wide advertisement campaign aimed at families and holiday trips.

 

Yes, it can happen to any ride, but it could’ve been handled better, and might’ve had less of an impact if so. And, again, that’s coming from someone who was also there on Levi’s opening day, and was able to ride it more than once, so the idea of me not being able to ride it right now isn’t the thing that I don’t like. Families don’t know if/when to wait a month, it’s just “the holidays have started and there are cool new rides for us to go on at Sea World, let’s book a vacation there and go on ‘em”. That’s what has already been happening, and that’s what I don’t like.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Tricoart

[aaronm]

Would it have been a good move to have a soft opening? Yes.

Is it unexpected for a new ride to have teething issues? Absolutely not.

When I travel I always consider it a bonus to be able to experience a new ride in its opening season. I reckon maybe a third of “new for this year” attractions have been out of action for me in the months after their official launch date.

If Leviathan is still having these issues in six months’ time then we have a problem. But on opening weekend… nothing to see here.

[rappa]

I enjoy that at no point has anyone carrying on been able to answer what ‘fully commissioned’ is despite continuing to throw the term around. 
 

Either it’s fully commissioned and doesn’t need a soft opening, or it’s not and shouldn’t be classes as open. I can’t keep up this thread is hoping around so much. 
 

What is very clear is few people if any seem to have any actual idea/experience on how ride commissioning actually works, how marketing campaigns work, or how projects are actually managed in the real world. 
And as soon as examples are given on why things are the way they are it’s all AH NO ITS NOT LIKE THAT THIS IS DIFFERENT SEA WORLD BAD BOOOO

 

I seem to recall a heap of complaining about ST previews at the time, not to mention all the mud slinging over Sky Voyager. But apparently I remember wrong and in fact Dreamworld handled their ride perfectly and Sea World have no clue. 
 

**side not, where did this rubbish that the theming isn’t finished come from? Give me a break, the solid line since opening is the absolute praise for how good a job they did on the theming. 

[aussienetman]

At the moment it's a very expensive walk through exhibit. Great theming... what's the wooden part for? 😂

 

 

 

Meh. Could have and should have soft opened to help avoid this mess. 

 

Good thing I've got the blog to keep me updated 🤣

https://themeparks.com.au/blog/leviathan-construction

Whoever is steering the marketing ship needs a refresh 

[themagician]

Hopefully with the winds speeds dropping today they have a good day of operations 

[Rivals]

7 hours ago, rappa said:

I enjoy that at no point has anyone carrying on been able to answer what ‘fully commissioned’ is despite continuing to throw the term around. 
Either it’s fully commissioned and doesn’t need a soft opening, or it’s not and shouldn’t be classes as open. I can’t keep up this thread is hoping around so much. 

Being fully commissioned means all checks, testing, and ride components are in place and operating as intended, no one can ride until a ride is fully commissioned which is why people only started riding on the employee preview the same week as the ride opening. I did allude to this in a reply but didn’t know i needed to actually fully explain it. 

7 hours ago, rappa said:

I seem to recall a heap of complaining about ST previews at the time, not to mention all the mud slinging over Sky Voyager. But apparently I remember wrong and in fact Dreamworld handled their ride perfectly and Sea World have no clue. 

Dreamworld - had a soft opening to iron out the technical issues which arose with the Tailwhip seat, allowing them to open the ride with very little issues. 

Seaworld - Opened a ride with only one preview day and no time to iron out any kinks, resulting in them opening a ride with very bad teething issues. 

so when you look at it, it does appear that Seaworld weren’t prepared for circumstances they knew could happen. Soft Openings are done so they can fix issues, so saying Dreamworld didn’t handle the ride perfectly, even though they held a lot of staff and public previews to iron out issues that could arise to create smooth operations upon opening, doesn’t really make any sense at all. 

7 hours ago, rappa said:

**side not, where did this rubbish that the theming isn’t finished come from? Give me a break, the solid line since opening is the absolute praise for how good a job they did on the theming. 

have you ridden the ride? the whole exit pathway is temporary walls, which don’t match the rest of the rides theming and you can tell that they aren’t meant to be staying there for long, people have been saying since opening day that it appears the theming isn’t finished. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Rivals

[webslave]

Meh, if you announce your opening weekend (setting customer expectations) without at least a week or two of ops (where you haven't given them an expectation) then you probably deserve what you get.  It's foolhardy, and the park would only have done it if they'd painted themselves into a corner.

[Gazza]

I dont think the exit is temporary walls.

They are finished in that pearlescent paint with wavy lines, just like the photo pass area and the test seat area.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Gazza

[sammypanda]

On 03/12/2022 at 2:06 PM, Tricoart said:

Workers are now walking the track with a bucket and a paintbrush, brushing the running steel with something (maybe water, maybe some lubricant?)

Update: Officially closed, queue emptied. Wind definitely not the reason, the ride is faulty.

does sea world not have the like 20 test run thing before opening like movie world does?

[downunder]

I think I'll give it a 2 or 3 months before contemplating a visit lol.

[Tricoart]

31 minutes ago, sammypanda said:

does sea world not have the like 20 test run thing before opening like movie world does?

Every ride has to be tested & looked over a certain amount of times before opening, Levi has been opening late (assumedly) because of issues arising in that pre-opening period, and closing early because of the issues compounding once guests are boarding. Also,

9 hours ago, rappa said:

What is very clear is few people if any seem to have any actual idea/experience on how ride commissioning actually works, how marketing campaigns work, or how projects are actually managed in the real world. 

And as soon as examples are given on why things are the way they are it’s all AH NO ITS NOT LIKE THAT THIS IS DIFFERENT SEA WORLD BAD BOOOO

 

I seem to recall a heap of complaining about ST previews at the time, not to mention all the mud slinging over Sky Voyager. But apparently I remember wrong and in fact Dreamworld handled their ride perfectly and Sea World have no clue. 
 

**side not, where did this rubbish that the theming isn’t finished come from? Give me a break, the solid line since opening is the absolute praise for how good a job they did on the theming. 

⬇️

21 hours ago, New display name said:

@rappayour cheque is in the mail.  Regards SW  

We know about as much as you do about how opening schedules are managed, they managed it wrong and other examples already given have managed it right. The only ‘example given on why things are like that’ that you’ve given pulling from a highly technical, innovative ride from Disney that goes down a lot, trying to say that it’s not right to complain about Levi going down as that ride does too. When, in actual fact, the main discussion about that ride is that it goes down a lot, because people inevitably get annoyed when that happens. And, with the other actual examples given for better managed opening schedules, a lot of Levi’s issues could’ve been smoothened out by opening with a soft opening/passholder preview, possibly negating most of the complaints entirely.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Tricoart

[rappa]

Its getting pretty funny now with all these assumptions. 
Who said they didn’t run the ride under normal conditions with staff?

Who said the exit is temporary?

 

You have all just decided these things to fit the narrative you’ve invented. 
 

@Rivals the more times you say Fully Commissioned the more ridiculous your definition get’s and make’s no sense when coupled with your ‘it’s not ready yet’ opinion.  

[Dean Barnett]

  

..

Edited December 4, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[rappa]

31 minutes ago, Gazza said:

I dont think the exit is temporary walls.

They are finished in that pearlescent paint with wavy lines, just like the photo pass area and the test seat area.

 

Sounds like you have some ACTUAL expertise in the area and know what you are talking about. This thread is no place for that!

[Tricoart]

5 minutes ago, rappa said:

You have all just decided these things to fit the narrative you’ve invented. 

And you haven’t? Because I seem to recall, only yesterday, you deciding that soft openings just don’t exist, that SW did everything right, and that all complaints are for nothing.

[rappa]

No I didn’t. 
I said a soft opening wouldn’t work because it would still create the complaints, I stand by that opinion. 
 

I said world made decisions and unfortunately some didn’t go perfect but also they didn’t have lot of other options given the timeline and how the real world works. That’s true. 
 

I said the complaints are a false level of outrage from people who think they understand things but don’t. I also stand by that opinion. 
 

I also wager the benefit in publicity and surprise/shock value the park got from keeping it all under wraps till opening day has far outweighed the small negativity from a vocal few that have been disappointed. (Side note most if those people will go back again and spend more money at the park). 
So as much as it might anger your precious self, it’s probably still worked well for the park.