DonjaiInLA

The Off Topic Topic

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My opinion on TRR is that it was a tragic accident that COULD have been prevented, but COULD NOT have been predicted to have occurred. 

Im also not privy to all the facts however. 

I’ve read that a pump had broken down which lowered the water level - could this have been fixed quicker? I’ve heard of the ride operating sans 1 pump numerous times with no issues.

ive heard that a girl on her first day was at the control panel. Would a more experienced attendant noticed the queuing and e-stopped prior. 

I’ve heard a sensor that stopped the conveyer failed. Would this have mattered had a more experienced attendant been working, or if the water level was higher. 

From my understanding (which could be wrong) there was numerous contributing factors that all played a part in the tragedy, and if all hadn’t occurred simultaneously it wouldn’t have happened. 

Pump & sensor issue with an experienced attendant - crisis averted 

New attendant & pump issue with no sensor failure - crisis averted 

Ultimately its DW’s job to provide a safe ride no matter what (excusing for morons deliberately circumventing safety producers). So yes, in that regard it’s their fault.

I’d argue though that unless the sensor failure was known about and ignored, then I don’t believe there was a malicious ignoring of safety precautions. 

Freak accidents can occur. They are still avoidable (“what if we didn’t even open the ride today”) but they are freak. 

I believe that QLD investigators and the coroners office were unable to replicate the incident despite days of trying to during the investigation - for me that represents a freak event 

Need to add to that though that I don’t begrudge or judge anyone who won’t step on their rides. It’s an entirely personal decision. Have 2 completely differing opinions in my own household! 

 

Edited by Brad2912
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TRRR is a "High Level" meaning only senior ride operators are allowed to operate it, its also a "Major" attraction meaning that every staff member responsible for the ride is highly trained and has to work very hard to get picked to operate the attraction. Inexperienced staff is defiantly not the case, but the amount of staff at the attraction is something that wasn't very thought out, the attraction was running at 2 staff usually, defiantly not the smartest.

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58 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

My opinion on TRR is that it was a tragic accident that COULD have been prevented, but COULD NOT have been predicted to have occurred. 

Im also not privy to all the facts however. 

I’ve read that a pump had broken down which lowered the water level - could this have been fixed quicker? I’ve heard of the ride operating sans 1 pump numerous times with no issues.

ive heard that a girl on her first day was at the control panel. Would a more experienced attendant noticed the queuing and e-stopped prior. 

I’ve heard a sensor that stopped the conveyer failed. Would this have mattered had a more experienced attendant been working, or if the water level was higher. 

From my understanding (which could be wrong) there was numerous contributing factors that all played a part in the tragedy, and if all hadn’t occurred simultaneously it wouldn’t have happened. 

Pump & sensor issue with an experienced attendant - crisis averted 

New attendant & pump issue with no sensor failure - crisis averted 

Ultimately its DW’s job to provide a safe ride no matter what (excusing for morons deliberately circumventing safety producers). So yes, in that regard it’s their fault.

I’d argue though that unless the sensor failure was known about and ignored, then I don’t believe there was a malicious ignoring of safety precautions. 

Freak accidents can occur. They are still avoidable (“what if we didn’t even open the ride today”) but they are freak. 

I believe that QLD investigators and the coroners office were unable to replicate the incident despite days of trying to during the investigation - for me that represents a freak event 

Need to add to that though that I don’t begrudge or judge anyone who won’t step on their rides. It’s an entirely personal decision. Have 2 completely differing opinions in my own household! 

 

Everything you have written is or was speculation.

Fast Skeets facts.

The conveyer spacing is larger than any other Rapids Ride that I have seen.

I have poured over hundreds of photos and I would like somebody to point out the location of the sensor where the raft was stuck in the way because I can’t see it.

If a sensor is to fail wouldn’t the same plc that tells the conveyor to stop pick up the sensor failure. 

Did the rail system in the load/unload station play a role?  Which I also believe is a DW first.

Who decided the water level was ok?  Did the water level min requirement change when the revolving platform was removed? What about when the rail system was built?

You have discarded all “Skeets fast fact” issues which happen to be the main differences between DW Rapid Rides and all other Rapids Rides.  Some which I know happened before Ardent came on board like building the unload stop location so close to the conveyor belt.   (a dumb idea by an engineer by the way)

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As I said, I’m not privy to the facts so therefore I base my decisions on what I’ve seen and heard. What else Do I have to go off? You are telling me your opinion and facts, and that adds to my knowledge base for my decisions around dreamworld. 

The removal of the slats/increased spacing was obviously also a contributing factor, I precluded that as I believed that happened prior to Ardent taking over, but guess I was mistaken on that one. 

@Minions! not particularly sure What you found funny about my post, but regardless, even if only senior operators could run TRR, they are still rookies/novices at that ride on their first day of training. Being proficient at running The Claw or Buzzsaw doesn’t mean you walk over to your first day on TRR as an expert on its operation and procedures. 

 

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From DW’s FB 

The next phase of Dreamworld’s remediation of its broader Gold Rush area commenced this week.  The broader Gold Rush site works began in September 2017, with the demolition of the mine ride mountain and ride infrastructure. The next phase of these works include:

 • Demolition of the Skylink infrastructure;  

• Demolition of attractions within the closed Gold Rush area including the Gold Rush street stores, shooting gallery and Old Time Photos; and

• Demolition of the decommissioned Thunder River Rapids ride, which is consistent with our undertaking given in late 2016 that the Thunder River Rapids ride would not operate again.  

The Gold Rush area remains cordoned off from the main Park and, where possible, site access for demolition of infrastructure is being undertaken out of Park operating hours.  

Our hearts and thoughts remain with the families and all those affected by the tragedy.  No decision has been made on future plans for the Gold Rush site.   

Edited by Adventures With JWorld

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It seems almost a bit spooky that we were told they had a desire to redevelop the Gold Rush section of Dreamworld well before the incident, which has now led them to do precisely that  (albeit with no particular plan for what will replace it).

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Back onto the TRR speculation - in particular this 'sensor' thing.

(cue a Roachie groan) - Wonderland's Snowy River had an "invisible beam" infra-red sensor, like we see on many water rides, mounted at the top of the conveyor. There were more IR sensors placed throughout the loading zones. The PLC wouldn't allow the conveyor to lower the next raft if the zone immediately after it was occupied, like any block system (Although Wonderland's conveyor reached it's peak and then lowered back down into the water on a slope, rather than allowing the raft to tip off it).

I'd always been of the opinion that there was a sensor at the top of the TRR conveyor that wasn't functioning properly - however it is possible to alter the PLC (or fool the sensor) if it is malfunctioning. Judging by some of the things said above, it seems like this may not have been the case - that there wasn't a sensor there at all.

For my own uneducated opinion, the slats certainly contributed, but the slats don't cause this issue on their own without several other factors.

The 'inexperienced' staff member cited by media immediately following the incident isn't portrayed clearly, and while i don't know all the facts, what i believe was that the cast member was not responsible for a panel - they were more of a loader\unloaded role - but that they had completed the required training for the task they were undertaking.

And for me, regardless of the placement of the e-stop for the cast member closest enough to witness this occurring, by the time you would notice the raft rising beyond normal, the time it would take you to hit the e-stop, it might as well have been located at tiger island. the raft would have tilted beyond recovery point before any stop could be engaged. This is why sensors and PLCs should have prevented the rafts from ever getting that close in the first place.

The rails underneath the water in the station are also, for my thoughts, contributing factors - they were trying to rectify a risk (boats tilting while guests step on and off) without thinking through the flow on consequences. In this circumstance the raft in front was immovable, which in my view is what forced the raft to flip.

The pumps themselves are pretty powerful beasts. I've seen these things suck up some very large objects and spit them out the other side. If the rafts were capable of floating out of the station under load (which it would need to, for them to have operated it all day) there was sufficient water pumping through the attraction and the offline pump probably wouldn't have made any difference.

Wonderland also stopped the rotation of the stationhouse. On many rapids rides i've been on overseas, i haven't yet come across another park that has done this. The turntables clearly prevent other issues, but they of course contribute to slip and fall accidents on behalf of a guest and in today's litigious society, if you could come up with a way to load the ride without the turntable it would probably be something you'd do - but by stopping the boats in the station, you're causing other issues to pop up elsewhere, and unless you can think of, and address them all, staying with the manufacturer's (or best practice) design is probably the better way to go. (yes, i realise the irony of me saying this here) and it gives me pause to wonder whether Wonderland's version could possibly have seen similar risks as it wore on (another 14 years wear on the slats - could they have done similarly to Dreamworld?, might they have installed rails?)...

anyway - that's my 40 cents.

 

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The conveyor belt has always been different from other Rapids Rides being as shown in TPG 1996 home video RR had every second board missing.  At some point after this the boards were reconfigured to have 2 boards missing.

rr2.JPG.054fee7f4b352dd1e2310deebd09f9d2.JPG

 

The operation procedure leading up to the accident is questionable in my eyes because when the pumps failed it was common to leave the guest on the ride while the water was fired up again.

rr.thumb.JPG.829186bada0d5ee7eb3b69c52f6cc77d.JPG

Having guest on a ride during a restart is not normal.  If a coaster stops running guest are removed from the ride and a test run is always carried out before they let guest back on the ride again.

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I agree it isn't normal, but due to the nature of the attraction design, the low point meant guests could bottom out well away from evac platforms.

Wonderland had evac platforms before the conveyor, however, when the pumps stopped overnight, water would submerge the platforms and make them quick slick - so it honestly would have been safer to restart the ride and have the rafts brought back to the station for unload (although, i'm not sure of Wonderland's procedure on that point).

I do recall at the time TRRR was being fitted with the underwater rails at the low point on the track, that dreamworld social did mention something about the need to 'row out' in a rowboat to recover guests who would drift into the lagoon... or something like that anyway.

Provided the rafts stay within the channel, a pump restart on a rapids ride really wouldn't be anywhere near the same in terms of risks when compared to say a coaster restart. They'll naturally be at the bottom end of the chute, and with the pump restart, the water level will drop back to operating levels. once the station is 'wet' they can restart the conveyor and be unloading guests. the 'wave' of water that tumbles down the chute at startup (wonderland history has some cool videos of that) never reaches the guests because the 'natural' water level sits well past where the rafts come to a stop...

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I would have thought it would almost always be preferable to return vehicles/cars/trains/whatever to the station and let guests disembark in the usual method if it is safe to do so. Your coaster example is extremely flawed. Here's an example; power went out and rivals got stuck and made the news, remember? were the guests evacuated or was the ride restarted and guests exited the ride when the train returned to the station?

We don't even have a timeline of events so how do you know what occurred or how it occurred to comment why you think something was unusual or caused the accident.

Edited by Levithian

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Yes jets were running today when I had my first ride in a couple of years. Clunky as hell (moreso than I’ve ever noticed before). Tbh if a was a less informed park guest i’d be saying it must be getting due for maintenance and some oiling.... 

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Great to see that DW did decide to bring back the water jets, but I am still really hoping they figure out a way to reinstall the surfboards 

In regards to Vintage Cars, I’m glad they decided to remove the roofs and try to add some form of theming element, but I wish they hid the koala enclosure fencing, with some vegetation or banners, just something. And adding some vintage machinery throughout the area would be nice to see too

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Happy to report it appears the era of laminate paper passes being issued appears to be over.

Mega/Super/VIP are all being issued on this plastic card stock now, One Pass has its own.

If like me you can’t wait until your pass expires to get a new one replacement is $5 :P

image.jpg

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