Richard

DC Rivals HyperCoaster construction discussion

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For some reason, all ways to edit my post seem to have disappeared. I just wanted to be fair and clarify a couple of things. 

This is all personal opinion.. for example, i understand many people love I305 but that wasn't my sort of thing either as it was more about speed and turns. But i'd still ride it if that's all that was on offer..

I genuinely apologise if my post upset anyone, it was merely an opinion on what I have seen. I've now ridden just under 800 coasters so have tended to form my own firm styles of coaster i love and don't love by now.

PS I also just want to explain why i feel we get shunted. To me, besides a couple of anomaly's like rita queen of speed, we also got the weakest intamin launched of the lot, that is further ruined by OTSR's. We have the worst multilooper with HWSW (yet when it was at luna park and new, it was a great ride at night, i remember that fondly).. We even get the slowest mack water coaster with the heavy brakes before the final drop (well at least it did that when i rode it). None of the other ones i have ridden do this! It's like nothing to me, in oz, seems to run at it's full potential. Tower of terror "feels" only 3/4 of what superman does at SFMM, and so on. 

I wouldn't have chosen mack for our hyper, simple as that, and that's probably a big part of it for me too. I would have chosen intamin, B&M, or RMC for an 150 ft mini hyper with 3 inversions. That's my personal preference and again i did not mean to be a debbie downer, but I was just so excited we were finally getting a hyper, i think that almost anything would have disappointed me. Hey I have different tastes to most people.. phoenix is widely recognised as one of the best woodies, and i hated it, literally. I'd never go out of my way to go to knoebels again. Just an example. We are all different.

3 minutes ago, Tim Dasco said:

@pazzap so you wanted this Hyper to be about airtime and speed. But it's like MW already have a coaster focus on that. Hmmm maybe Superman Escape? This Hyper is meant to be a crazy coaster with twist and turns and full on.

huh? S:E is terrible, another nothing coaster except launch and first bit of air. Anyway, the worst hyper coaster i have ever ridden in my life is goliath/titan, followed closely by desperado, then the big one, so this will be far from the worst. That's not what I meant. I am sure it will be fun. Just not my first choice.

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On the contrary I think we got one of the better Rocket coasters. TTD/Kingda Ka have the speed and height but are very short lived experiences, Xcelerator doesn't do much after it's (fantastic) initial launch, Stealth and its clones are mini Kingda Ka's... SE tells a story brilliantly with good theming, has a punchy launch and a great layout for the available space.

Curious to know what you thought of MF? Lots of floaty air and big elements but for me it was one of the most underwhelming coasters of my trip. It bored me. Low lying elements are exactly what this coaster type should contain IMO - I really think Mack did a great job designing this coaster. It feels like a greatest hits collection of coaster elements. Other than the initial camelback it doesn't have your traditional out-and-back up-down floaty hills but there'll certainly be no shortage of air.

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Superman Escape is widely considered one of Intamin's best hydraulic launch coasters in the world. I'm really lost as to how any part of the ride could be seen as "terrible".

Even if DC Rivals is a lot worse than we thought it would be (it won't be, but for this case let's assume it is), it'll still be the best coaster in Australia, no doubt about that.

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Hi guys and girls. Just wondering if anyone has seen or confirmed if there are two or more trains to dc rivals as this is a long ride and queue lines will be long sorry if I missed if in the previous pages:)

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I don't know how it can be said it has nothing in common with other hypercoasters....It has 5 airtime hills, overbanks.....so that is a fair bit of typical hyper right there.

 

Stuff like non inverting loops occurs on hypers like flying aces too...

 

Re Superman against other accelerators...I put it ahead of storm runner, rita and stealth.

Others like TTD, Kingda Ka and Xcellerator are neck and neck but I prefer it over them too.

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2 hours ago, Santa07 said:

Superman Escape is widely considered one of Intamin's best hydraulic launch coasters in the world. I'm really lost as to how any part of the ride could be seen as "terrible".

Because he's talking out of his ass

3 minutes ago, Gazza said:

Re Superman against other accelerators...I put it ahead of storm runner, rita and stealth.

Others like TTD, Kingda Ka and Xcellerator are neck and neck but I prefer it over them too.

Ive not ridden TTD but apart from Xcellerator I've not found anyone who doesn't rate superman as the most powerful launch. And Superman is certainly most solid attraction of any of the accelerator coasters given its more than just a one trick pony. 

 

Xcellerator is of course a whole different beast. There is nothing like that launch except maybe dodonpa 

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In my opinion, from the footage above, the second half of the coaster doesn't seem sluggish at all to me. I mean, I guess a tiny bit when the train crests the stengel dive, but other than that it seems to gain back it's speed and cruise along the track at a great pace.

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4 hours ago, Tim Dasco said:

@Rabbit2014 It will be 2 trains.

Just because it has 2 trains doesn't mean they will be running 2 trains cough cough superman escape. But at least it has 2 trains and one wasn't cannibalised cough cough arkham asylum. 

Edited by Theme Park

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On 9/1/2017 at 4:24 PM, pazzap said:

The first drop, airtime hill and inverted loop are it for this coaster, then it's a nothing coaster as far as i am concerned.

This will all be mostly about front seat airtime and maybe the very back seat for the first drop and that's it.

Are you nuts?

You'll get insane ejector over the first hill in all seats, ejector through the loop in all seats, a bit of floater going into and out of the stengel dive, floater into the turnaround, and then countless moments of air on the bunny hills back to the station. Add to that how fast those low to the ground twists will feel, the headchoppers, and a first drop to rival expedition geforce.

This isn't your typical hyper, but god forbid someone goes and does something new and interesting with a 200ft drop. You can hardly compare this with a B&M hyper, it's a completely different type of ride.

Edit: I forgot about the twisted airtime hill.

12 hours ago, wikiverse said:

But Rivals was always going to need some trims.  The ride features lateral Gs that most other coasters don't - at the top of the loop and Stengel Dive, at the top and bottom of the turn around, and on the camel back.  It also doesn't have OTSRs so there is nothing to limit those forces on your body.  If you're going too fast through those sections, it's just going to hurt.  Maybe not when you're on the ride, but later in the day or the next day your lower back is going to hurt.

Why do you think there's going to be any serious laterals at those points?

OTSRs don't limit the forces on your body, if anything they make laterals worse because you've got something to knock your head into.

The trims aren't being added because of any laterals or extreme forces, they're rather more for reducing the general wear and tear on the ride over time.

Edited by AllegroCrab

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Well QLD school holidays start in a couple of weeks, so I'd say they will push for a soft opening around then, but if Mack aren't satisfied or work still needs completing, then it could be towards the end of the month before we get the soft opening. With the amount of continuous testing they were doing yesterday, it is a positive sign. 

Another comment I will make is yesterday during the testing, I was interested to see how the fins would effect the ride, and as you can probably see in the videos I posted, it doesn't effect it that much. You can hear them having an effect, and the train slightly slowing down, but otherwise I'm not worried about it drastically changing the ride experience.

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There's what, about 20-26 fins over two rows on SE for the final brakes, which wash I'd guess about 40/50kmhr?

Making a lot of assumptions (same braking effort per fin essentially), the three Rivals fins would only wash a small amount (10kmhr?) in addition to the uphill run.

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23 hours ago, pazzap said:

Being low to the ground and twists and turns is exactly why i don't like it.


Have you tried Taron by any chance? That coaster at Phantasialand is almost all about low to the ground twistyness, and because of the sheer speed and snappiness of the experience, it provides a truly exciting and thrilling ride - although the gorgeous scenery does help. I love airtime machines, but Taron made me realize there were other ways to create exilarating coasters than a series of intense hills.

I think B&M Hypers are a great product, consistently delivering enjoyable amounts of floater airtime. But they tend to be quite similar to each others, with the occasional innovation here and there - Shambhala and the upcoming one at HotGo Park in China are notable examples of more original layouts. Mack, on the other hand, are trying to create more diverse layouts and experiences which I appreciate. DC Rivals will have a 90° twisted drop that none of the many B&M Hypers have.

I understand the disappointment of not having the same quantity of airtime a classic Intamin Mega or a B&M hyper might deliver. However, Movie World AU has a unique and very promising big Mack coaster in hand. I think that will attract more attention and interest from coasterfans worldwide than yet another Mako or Diamondback! ;)

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23 hours ago, Flea said:

On the contrary I think we got one of the better Rocket coasters. TTD/Kingda Ka have the speed and height but are very short lived experiences, Xcelerator doesn't do much after it's (fantastic) initial launch, Stealth and its clones are mini Kingda Ka's... SE tells a story brilliantly with good theming, has a punchy launch and a great layout for the available space.

Curious to know what you thought of MF? Lots of floaty air and big elements but for me it was one of the most underwhelming coasters of my trip. It bored me. Low lying elements are exactly what this coaster type should contain IMO - I really think Mack did a great job designing this coaster. It feels like a greatest hits collection of coaster elements. Other than the initial camelback it doesn't have your traditional out-and-back up-down floaty hills but there'll certainly be no shortage of air.

I agree Xcellerator is a nothing after drop, but the height and overall top speed give it the edge for me. The fact that it has lap bars mean it will always win for me in any case. Just like i far prefer TDR to Kingda for that same reason (and kingda airtime hill has zero airtime anyway so i don't know why it's there). the sheer height of those and again INSANE speed give them the edge for me even though they are one trick wonder. But what exactly does superman do after the launch and first airtime hill anyway.?. Maybe I am missing something lol? A couple twists and turns and a tunnel and tiniest bit of air with truly horrible OTSRs. I have so many pics imaginable on that coaster and i look half asleep in every single one LOL, even the photo lady laughed cause she could tell it was genuine.

I really enjoyed kanonen as an example of a short but sweet intense launch coaster from the start to finish. So sad it's gone.

PS most exciting mack coaster in a long time to me is the launched looping spinner coming to SDC. I am thinking of another trip next year just to visit SDC to ride it, and then to pop down to fiesta texas for wonder woman. 

I agree with you overall and i respect your opinion, and i am very impressed that no one lashed out at me and have replied maturely and with solid viewpoints! I was honestly worried i'd get hammered for my opinion re DC rivals. Remember i could be completely wrong and it's amazing! I'll be there opening day with my bestie.

 

Now, with Millennium force, i rode it opening year.. me and my bestie got off at it at the end, looked at each other totally underwhelmed, and both said, "mediocre force". So we are not that different are we after all! The reason i love helix is because of the masterful pacing. I heard people complain about the slow launches but it wasn't about that to me. The launches in helix are there to facilitate the precise speed the coaster needs and nothing more, IMO. To me it's the best paced coaster bar none, a multi looper with non stop action from the moment you leave the station to the moment you arrive.. and even has real airtime! What a wonderful wonderful coaster.. 7 inversions with lap bars will always get praise from me in any case. Again, I just can't rave about it's pacing enough and it's in my top 3 best coasters (steel) of all time. 

You know, i could be wrong. Rivals might be amazing. I just wish it had 1 or 2 more big hills, that's all. It has exactly 1 big airtime hill, and in a hyper, that just doesn't make sense to me at all. Surely my viewpoint could be understood at the very least, even if not agreed with?

 

Edited by pazzap
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14 hours ago, AllegroCrab said:

Why do you think there's going to be any serious laterals at those points?

OTSRs don't limit the forces on your body, if anything they make laterals worse because you've got something to knock your head into.

Because when the axis of rotation is below you, you are forced sideways into your seat.  When you only have a lap-bar restraint your body will flex at the lower back during the sudden change in direction.  The faster you are going through these elements, the greater the forces placed on your body.  You'll notice I specifically didn't mention the S-Bend, because the rotation axis is at chest height.

OTSRs absolutely limit the impact of those forces on your body by restricting your range of movement. That is why OTSRs are used - to hold your body in place. On a ride like SE they exist pretty much only for the brake run and they are what prevent you from smashing your face against the seat in front of you during the sudden stop. Excessive forces on a ride don't always make it more fun.

 

14 hours ago, AllegroCrab said:

The trims aren't being added because of any laterals or extreme forces, they're rather more for reducing the general wear and tear on the ride over time.

Do you have any actual evidence to support this claim?  Because it seems to me like the ride was designed for trims to be added in two very specific places, and they have only added them in one of those places.  In addition, they haven't slowed the chain on the lift hill, which would instantly reduce the speed across the entire coaster without the need for trims and would also reduce the maintenance costs (on the train, track, chain and motor).  It almost seems like they want the coaster going as fast as possible over the top of the lift hill to maximise the speed, which runs counter to your assertion, given that the most wear and tear would occur during high-speed and high-force elements like those situated before the trim brakes on this coaster, but after the other mounting point where trims were not added.

And the amount of speed reduction from the trims would have just enough impact to make the ride more comfortable, but a negligible impact on actual ride maintenance costs.

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On 03/09/2017 at 10:01 AM, Coaster Hipster said:


Have you tried Taron by any chance? That coaster at Phantasialand is almost all about low to the ground twistyness, and because of the sheer speed and snappiness of the experience, it provides a truly exciting and thrilling ride - although the gorgeous scenery does help. I love airtime machines, but Taron made me realize there were other ways to create exilarating coasters than a series of intense hills.

I think B&M Hypers are a great product, consistently delivering enjoyable amounts of floater airtime. But they tend to be quite similar to each others, with the occasional innovation here and there - Shambhala and the upcoming one at HotGo Park in China are notable examples of more original layouts. Mack, on the other hand, are trying to create more diverse layouts and experiences which I appreciate. DC Rivals will have a 90° twisted drop that none of the many B&M Hypers have.

I understand the disappointment of not having the same quantity of airtime a classic Intamin Mega or a B&M hyper might deliver. However, Movie World AU has a unique and very promising big Mack coaster in hand. I think that will attract more attention and interest from coasterfans worldwide than yet another Mako or Diamondback! ;)

Mako was a huge disappointment to me, i far prefer apollo's which is 2 decades it's junior.

Taron was ok, it was sort of exciting but i just get bored with twisters, including woodies. I rode gci roar first year and i renamed it yawn (to quote another example).

Taron has an exciting launch and actually does have some air in front seat, and look, it's a bit of  rush, but to *me*, not actually "thrilling". Cool?

On 02/09/2017 at 9:38 PM, AllegroCrab said:

Are you nuts?

You'll get insane ejector over the first hill in all seats, ejector through the loop in all seats, a bit of floater going into and out of the stengel dive, floater into the turnaround, and then countless moments of air on the bunny hills back to the station. Add to that how fast those low to the ground twists will feel, the headchoppers, and a first drop to rival expedition geforce.

This isn't your typical hyper, but god forbid someone goes and does something new and interesting with a 200ft drop. You can hardly compare this with a B&M hyper, it's a completely different type of ride.

Edit: I forgot about the twisted airtime hill.

Why do you think there's going to be any serious laterals at those points?

OTSRs don't limit the forces on your body, if anything they make laterals worse because you've got something to knock your head into.

The trims aren't being added because of any laterals or extreme forces, they're rather more for reducing the general wear and tear on the ride over time.

any need to personally insult me? No i'm not "nuts", i just have my own coaster preferences like everyone does.

 

I bet you there will be no airtime in the back seat on the second hill. That will be front airtime only. Back airtime will only exist coming out of inv loop and stengel drop. 

PS el toro in the very very back seat is my kind of coaster.. I spent an entire day with premium flash pas riding just that, definitely over 50 times. But it gives you an idea of what I like.

Ghost rider reconditioned is back to it's 2001 glory and a night ride in the very back seat is now in my top 10 of all time again.

I also love relentless inversions and hang time..

Edited by pazzap

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2 minutes ago, Coaster Hipster said:

I've seen people riding at the front, but has there been testing with people on the back seat as well? With such a particular first drop *and* the backwards seating, that seems like a really particular experience to test out!

I am a bit disappointed with the back seat thing because there is currently no way to get the *maximum* first drop "pull down" airtime on the stengel dive when facing forward. Even just one row makes a difference, the airtime will be slightly lessened. I would have liked it all facing forwards and for a limited special event now and then they could have it ALL backwards for a week or so. Something like that. The good thing is with only one row, if it's not too popular they can reverse it easily :)

 

Edited by pazzap

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